i hate sulleh

Anon, The word guru is used today to refer to a teacher or religious teacher. Actually, Guru is derived from Sanskrit. Gu meaning darkness and Ru meaning light. Thus, Guru is the one who brings light into darkness or gives realization.

YOU IGNORANT IDIOT, GURU NANAK WAS BORN GURU, HE WAS NOT GOD BUT HAD THE SAME LIGHT, FIRST UNDERSTAND WHAT GURU MEANS AND THEN TALK ABOUT, GURU NANAK BEING INFLUENCED BY BHAGAT KABIR JI.kabir ji was of the bhakti movement so was guru nanak, but guru nanak to guru gobind singh was unique and ordained and willed by god they were like god themselves, they had merged into god, their remains no difference once this has taken place. They merged into the supreme reality, the highest of the highest satguru nanak and above all waheguru
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

This is better rAj crE gA kAlsA , sorry.

If you have Punjabi font you should be able to read this rAj crE gA kAlsA in punjabi.

Raj Pannu,

Download and install Punjabi font from http://www.alphalink.com.au/~harry/frontpage.htm, then type exactly 'rAj crE gA kAlsA' (case senstive).

i was just hoping someone could tell me (in punjabi writing) how to write raj karega. T'would be much appreciated!

To everyone, I not so sure Rajinder Nijjhar posted that message. Once by accident I went to his site. The site is geared towards Jatt unity by using biased comparisons from Islam. From a cultural aspect some of the things he says are interesting, however, when he brings Sikhism into his argument, he fails.

Someone has copied and pasted those remarks.

O Rajindera - Bandra Chup kar. Khota Paunki Jaunda. Shut up You fu_king fool. Stop making an ass out of yourself. Ask your Mom-Dad, if they dropped on your head a few times when you were little because seems like your mental growth got stunted. Do your ownself a favour and get admitted to a mental institution- BANDER JIHA NA HOI TA

To alias on Wednesday, January 26, 2000 - 05:44 am:,

This rajinder is an idiot

Rajinder Nijjar has very beautifully concluded how all evils in this society are the faults of Brahimins, Khatries, Rabbies etc. He is also justified in preching the fact that hate and greed brings the character of an individual and religion down. Now all the knowledge that my learned friend has, could have been used in a positive manner. Mr. Nijjar has in the end showed his own limited thinking and selfishness of putting other castes down. Mr. Nijjar being a J a t has very pleasantly downgraded every other caste. An example is that he has used the name of Chandu Lal at the end of his article and blamed the entire Khatri clan for the execution of Guru Arjun Dev ji, forgetting that by doing so, he has blamed all the Gurus as well because all of them were Khatries- Thanks, my learned friend. Furhter, all the preaching that he has done in his article, sounds very superficial becausehe himself is biased and narrow minded towards all non-ja ts.

Again and again he has compared & tried to make a point that Guru Nanak Dev ji is the reincarnation of Christ. In my personal opinion, the kind of positive approach and Philosophical view that Guru Nanak ji had, no one else had. Just to make my point clear, Guru Granth Sahib is not based on all stories like Earth was created on the first day and stuff(as done in Bible). Guru Granth Sahib has core of reality, it is philosophy at its best and no stories.

So please my friend, remember that knowledge is necessary for human growth, but little bit of knowledge is dangerous. Fruther, little bit of knowlege in wrong hand is like ignition switch of a Nuclear bomb in the hands of a fool.

GREATEST OF ALL IS SATGURU (CHRIST) NANAK DEV JI

This is often proclaimed in the Gurdwaras but hardly anyone knows how and why?

Christ Jesus was the First Anointed Satguru. Within a century of His death, the greedy Bishops not only smothered His Light but they also turned to be the greatest anti-Christs who killed people for not obeying their "wills". The disciples of Hazrat Mohammed Sahib, the Mohammadans, under the pretext of "Islam" surpassed the atrocities of the Popes and his accomplishes the Bishops. Some of the ruling Mohammadans would not hesitate to kill those who refused to become Mohammadans.

But before you would be able to appreciate the qualities of a Christ, it is important to know why Christ or Satguru comes into this world.

In the past Ages, Brahmans or Rabbis used to lead the people and the people used to follow them like a blind without asking any question. Those Brahmans and Rabbis used to leave their tribal homes to take over the headship of a Temple. John, the Baptist was an example of an ideal Rabbi. They did not have any material attachment or the love of their own kith and kins. In giving the Judgements, they were impartial and such an honest and devoted Priest led people of all tribes into Peaceful living called "heaven". This Jesus stressed by Saying that the key to the kingdom of heaven was given to the Rabbis, neither they themselves would not enter nor they would let others to enter. That is when the Rabbis had become greedy and dishonest they misled the people. This is amply reflected in the Gurdwaras where a greedy and clever Granthi can cause friction among the members of the congregation leading them to hatred rather than Agape, the divine Love.

The people used to follow Brahman or a Rabbi like a "blind" without thinking of their own or intuition called "SURTI" or "spirit". Among the Jews, there are recent stories of houses catching fire on a Sabbath. The house occupants would not put the fire off as it involved working, which is forbidden by law on a Sabbath without the permission of the Rabbi. In some cases, the house got burnt down whilst the occupants sought the "permission" of the Rabbi to put it off. That is why Jesus said, "If your animal falls into a ditch on a Sabbath Day, wouldn't you save him or leave him to die?" Thus, the Jews and the Hindus were called "Blind to spirit" or "MUNN DAE ANAHAE". Christ Jesus said the blind leading the blind into the Pit and Bhagat Nam Dev Ji said,

HINDU ANAH, TURKO KANAH, GIANI DOHAN TAE SIANA

Under such circumstances when the Brahman "Gurus" became inefficient and the people were left of their own, it created "chaos". Thus, it became popular that the Brahmans themselves "sank" and also with them sank their followers:-

BAHMAN AAP VI DOBBAE ATTAE JAJMAAN VI DOBAE

In order to look after the suffering people, the First anointed Christ Jesus appeared and showed to them the narrow Gate of the Royal Kingdom of God, RAAM RAJAY, for the Peace of their minds, ANAND. This Gate is to be sought by an individual of his own through the seeking power of his "ANTAR SATGURU" or the "inner man", that is to be renewed every day through open-mindedness.

Now, Christ or a Satguru goes by the Will of our Father and they do not do their own Wills. Our Father being "Merciful", all the merciful "deeds" of a Bhagat or Christ represent the Qualities of God. Thus, you won't find a Bhagat or a Christ thinking evil of others but goodness with the moral that "Goodness reaps goodness and evil reaps evil".

Thus, when Christ Jesus was returning to Jerusalem to lay down his life, two of His disciples, James and John, went to a Samaritan village to ask them to be prepared to receive Jesus. But the villagers told them, "Let him go by and they don't care". At this the two disciples were extremely angry and asked Jesus to put that village on fire as Elijah, a Great Rabbi, did in the past. But Jesus replied that he has come to do the Will of our Father and not His own Will. Our Father being Spirit, He sets people "FREE" in spirit and He does not bind people in the "letters" of the law. In other words, you cannot "sin" against God but "blasphemy". Thus, by going by and doing the Will of our Father, the religion of Jesus was "Islam", in which INSHALLAH prevailed and that "Islam" was FREE of the moral laws of Moses that bound people in the "letters" of the Law or Shariah. In short, "Islam" of Allah is FREE of Shariah laws and Shah Shamas Tabraez tried to stress that Arif or Saints are "FREE" of the Shariah Laws that were enforced by the satanic Mullahs in the name of Allah.

Around 1250 A.D. about 250 Cathers of France who disobeyed Pope were burnt alive and the Mohammadans led by their satanic Mullahs went around enforcing their own version of Islam. Both the Popes and the Mullahs created great HAVOC in the world especially the East where the clever and opportunist satanic people of Khatri tribe exploited this concept of Islam in which the Mullahs hypocritically proclaimed "INSHALLAH", God be Willing, but did their own "wills", INSHMULLAHS, the edicts or Fatwas. Mohammadans proclaimed to themselves as "Mussallmaans" but in deeds they were cruel Kafirs ascertaining their own "wills" upon others. In short, what people proclaimed was just the opposite to what the REALITY was. That confused people and they needed a Christ or Satguru to throw Light on such matters. Remember that a Mussallmaan stands for a FIRM believer of Allah and, therefore, such a person reflects all the good qualities of Allah. Thus, a true Mussallmaan is in Allah and Allah in him. Such a Mussallmaan never tells lies, usurps the rights of others and he is always "merciful" according to the Saying of Christ Nanak Dev Ji:-

"MUSSALLMAAN MOOM DIL HOWAE;
ANTAR DI MAEL DILL TAE DHOWAE"

So, God sent the Second Anointed Christ (Satguru) that was predicted by Christ Jesus in the name of Nanak Dev Ji to dispel the religious Darkness that was created by the sons of Satan. Satguru Nanak Dev Ji was the Greatest of all the Christs because He had a bigger Job ahead of Him. Five other Satgurus took the form of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji to fight the Darkness created by the sons of Satan especially the people of Khatri tribe who had become Mullahs in the Mosques. Thus, in Sikhism there were SIX SATGURUS whilst in the Khalsaism, there were FOUR SACHAE PAATSHAH.

Today the sons of Satan have created so much so Darkness again that some people have even forgotten their own tribal fathers in flesh never mind knowing our Father in Spirit AKAAL PURAKH. Down to earth FOOLISH people, who have replaced their tribal surnames by the names of their villages or even district are sitting on the Holiest of Holy Seat at Akaal Takht meant for the Nirmallae Sants, the Apostles. Remember that a prostitute who serves the whole village or town if gives birth to a boy, then such a boy is given the surname of the village or town. So, many of the Jathedars of Akaal Takht fall among this category of their "foolishness" in that they were born in a father's home but they adopted the surname of a village or town to boost their "ego". About such people, Satguru Nanak Dev Ji said,

"HUMAE VICH JAATI JINSEE KHOEI….."

How effective is the preaching from such people sitting at Akaal Takht that they do not know whether it is right to say, "HARIMANDIR SAHIB" or "HARMANDIR SAHIB". There is a hell of difference as it is between a "Guru" and a "Satguru". Gurus are mother, father and Brahman, who teach us the moral laws pertaining to our physical selves or TANN whilst a Satguru directs His preaching to one's conscience, ZAMEER or MUNN and not to the physical body or TANN. Whilst a Sachae Paatshah enforces JUSTICE in the society without any partiality under the Slogan,

"MANAS KI JAAT SABHAE AIK PAHCHANO….."

Finally, I can't justify my views in such a short article as you need people of discerning intellect to judge the situation under which Satguru Nanak Dev Ji and Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji appeared. A fair comparison may be drawn from the cruelty that the First Anointed Christ Jesus suffered at the hands of the Temple Priests led by a man of Judah tribe and the Light of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji in the Name of Satguru Arjan Dev Ji, who was tortured by a Khatri in the name of Chandu Lal by making Him to sit on a hot iron plate with hot sand being poured over the head for a few days in the hottest month of June. Thus, greater the Satguru, the greater He was tortured by the sons of Satan.

So, Who was great? Satguru Jesus or Christ Nanak Dev Ji? Judge for your self.


--
Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar, M.Sc.
A •••• of the United Greater Panjab,
Mussallmaan of Pir Nanak Shah,
With the grace of Allah, you acquire Al-Kitaab of Al-Islaam,
Gnostics are the living christs (satgurus) and NOT Christians, of Living
Allah (Spirit),
Remember that to your Three Gurus mother, father and Pandit, you render money,
To your Satguru Nanak Dev Ji/Christ Jesus, you render your MUNN or "mind" AND,
To your Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji, you render your TANN or "physical body" as sacrifice.
For articles on sister Christian and Sikh communities, visit:-
http://www.bargain-travel.co.uk/gnostic.htm
http://www.bargain-travel.co.uk/sikhism.htm

I agree with Punjabi kuri about the comments that she has made. We Sikhs first must follow the rehit and then start blaming the muslims or hindus.

Since the genocidal killers of 1984 are now going to go scot free after all, it is time for us to decide whether Punjab should be made one again. There is no security for us in a land that lets killers of Delhi and Asansol move about scot free, that seeks to crush our language - Punjabi by bombarding Bollywood at it. Our Hindu Punjabi brothers have acted traitor. Even in Punjab, they speak Hindi in their homes. It is for us Sikhs to keep Punjabi alive. And this cannot happen in India. India is a liguistic monarchy of bhayyas who are forgiven any deed, any outrage. In the West they would be tried for war crimes.

Let us try to bring the Panjab of 1942 alive. Down with those who will try to crush us. Sikhs have risen in the past and they will rise again !!!!

To Anonymous on Thursday, December 9, 1999 - 12:12 am:

I agree with you that christianity did degrade women's position in many socities. In one of my history classes we studied about the ancient society on the island of Tonga which is part of Indonasia now. The women were held in high esteem there and the linage of the family was traced through women. But once the x-tians went there the degraded women's position, forced them to wear clothes like western women. There used to be custom in Tonga that women would not get pregnant until her other child was cutting teeth. The reason for that was that the child needed all of mother's milk to survie because without teeth it could not eat the food that was available on the Island.

But the x-tians had their own ideas. They peached women should be submissive to men and should be available all the times for men's sexual needs. You can imagine what happened after that, birth rate on the island went up but so did the child morality rate.
The point is whole society became messed up.

This is just one of the story and there are hundards of other people can tell you from all around the world.

The Christians ways are totaly alien to these tribal they are trying to convert and the tribal ways of life are alien to the christians. These missionaries are going there just to increase the christian population on the Asian continent, they are not there to offer better life to anyone and they won't learn the tribal's way of living. These tribals will be left as confused as the people of Tonga.

To punjabi kuri on Wednesday, December 8, 1999 - 05:07 pm:,

Well you quoted someone from New york post, these newspapers are for white audiences which want bad news coming from abroad any way. Well the pope did survive and survived handsomely. As for atrocities against christaian, it is interesting how well documented these are in the broad media yet atrocities against hindus do no appear at all in the english media. Plus in my personal view christianity does not liberate it gives new kind of slavery. I am not against christianity but I am against the methods used in conversions and the group of people they target ie mainly the tribals, who have their special relationship with their environment which is ecological. You can see all around you where christians have settled they have destroyed the environment and are continuing to do so eg in the americas and europe. Only now they are learning that the old pre christian values were good for the environment and so many christians in developed countries are becoming new age, pagan and shamans. Since developed world is rejecting christianism in droves why should we allow them to dump a defunct philosophy on tribals who do not have the access to knowledge to judge whether christianity is good for them or not.

You also asked that women should be treated equal, yes I agree with you 100%, you may notice that the monoatheistic religions did more damage to stature of women than any thing before. Women were considered god like and were worshipped in older tribal pagan religions. In few places where older pagan religions did survive women have a lot of power like in assam.

I'm back....
To anonymous:
I am not falling into any western trap. I have read many sources on these matters, written by not only white scholars, but Indian scholars too (these include Hindu's, Sikh's, and Muslims). Many of these scholars have reported that barbaric attrocities are being commited against the Chrisitians of India. They are being persecuted just because Hindu's feel threatened by them. There are religious motives behind these attacks... I have enclosed an article which I found in the New Yorks Times:
FROM THE NEW YORK POST, OCT. 28, 1999]

(BY FRED DREHER)

Will Pope John Paul II be safe in India ? There is more reason to worry for the pontiff's welfare as
he visits the world's largest democracy next week than there was when he went to communist
Poland under martial law.

That's because a small but violent faction of Hindu fundamentalists aligned with the Hindu nationalist
government have been conducting an organized campaign against the pope as part of a concerted
effort to demonize and persecute the country's tiny Christian minority.

The government promises to protect the Holy Father from coalition fanatics. But while John Paul can
rely on state security, his Catholic followers and Protestant brethren remain at the mercy of Hindu
brownshirts.

These thugs have carried out vicious attacks on Christians since a coalition led by the hard-line
Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) came to power two years ago.

Freedom House, the Washington-based human-rights organization, says there have been more
recorded incidents of violence against India's Christian minority in the past year than in the previous
half-century.

The most shocking incident took place in January, when Hindu thugs burned alive Australian
missionary Graham Staines and his two little boys. That was far from a isolated incident.

In 1998, the Catholic Bishop's Conference in India reported 108 cases of beatings, stonings, church
burnings, looting of religious schools and institutions, and other attacks on Catholics and evangelicals.

It has been just as bad this year. Just last month, a Catholic priest working in the same territory as
the Staines family was murdered while saying Mass for converts, his heart pierced by a
poison-tipped arrow.

Why the attacks? Hindu nationalist leaders, particularly those associated with the BJP-allied World
Hindu Congress (VHP), claim Christians are on `conversion overdrive.'

This is preposterous. Despite being present in India for almost 2,000 years, and educating hundreds
of millions of Indian children, Christianity claims the allegiance of less than 3 percent of the country's
people.

Even in Orissa state, site of the worst anti-Christian violence, fewer than 500 conversions occur each
year.

Still, Hindu nationalists continue to make wild-eyed assertions, such as VHP leader Mohan Joshi's
recent statement that missionary homes run by Mother Teresa's order were `nothing but conversion
centers.'

Not true, but if it were, so what?

We know perfectly well what would have become of the diseased and the destitute had Mother
Teresa's nuns not rescued them from the street: They would have been left to die in the gutter
condemned by a culture that decrees these lowborn souls deserve their fate.

`What has the VJP done to better the life of the low castes? The answer is nothing,' says Freedom
House investigator Joseph Assad.

`When I was in India , I talked to one Christian who was forcibly reconverted to Hinduism. He told
me when no one cared for us, Christians came and gave us food, gave us shelter and gave us
medicine.'

An Indian Protestant activist who lives in New Jersey told me BJP rule has meant open season on
followers of Christ.

`The last two years have been unprecedented,' the man says. `They have burned chuches down,
raped nuns, killed people. We complain to the government, but they look the other way.'

The Hindu militants certainly do not represent the sentiments of all Hindus. But these thugs have the
tacit support and protection of the ruling BJP. Indeed, the BJP Web site condemns `Semitic
monotheism'--Judaism, Christianity and Islam--for `bringing intolerance to India .'

This is what is known to professional propagandists as the Big Lie. No wonder Hindu hard-liners
confidently pillage Christian communities.

How many more Hindu-led atrocities will Christians and others suffer before Prime Minister Atal
Behari Vajpayee calls off the nationalist dogs?

Will it take a physical assault on the Holy Father for the world to wake up to the kind of place
Gandhi's great nation has become.


Obviously the BJP slogan is one of Hindu nationalism. "Hindu, Hindi, Hindutva, Hindu Rashtra"
Does this statement entail the tolerance for religious freedom? Anonymous, I think it's take you wake up and see your country for what it really is. Attitudes like yours are going to keep alienating minority groups, who in turn will want to separate from India. No matter how many Hindu's Christians convert, it does not justify the former using any violence against the latter. In addition, many cases of rape and murder have not been solved because they goonda's are protected by the BJP government, just as the Sikhs assaliants were protected by the Congress government (if you don't believe me read the People's Union for Democratic Rights... this is written by a Hindu in India.. not a westerner).
Anyway, on to my next point. True, Pakistani's and Sikhs have not had the best relationship. However, this is not the point. Punjab is with India not Pakistan. And I disagree with your statement that Punjab's security lies with India. Not with this kind of India... the minute Sikhs start asking for certain things the Hindu's will get upset all over again. For example, the Chandigarh issue remains unsolved. You do not think that some Sikh or Hindu is going to bring this up again? And who is the government going to side with: the Sikhs who they tried to commit extreme genocide against or the Hindu's? When a problem is not solved, common sense tells us that it is likely to rise again.
Lastly, is everyone so freaked out about the Muslim's trying to convert Sikhs. I talked to my cousin in England, and he said this is not even a big problem. Few Sikh girls have converted. I have a strong belief in my religion. If a Muslim every approached me about converting, I'd give him a run for his money. In addition, Sikhs should stop complaining. Why don't we start educating people on our religion? If these Sikh girls really knew what their religion was about, I am sure they would not want to convert. I mean, who would leave a religion that provides equality between men and women and between castes, and is full of humility?
To all Sikhs: reject the caste system and the ill treatment of women, like our Guru's wanted. If we follow their advice, the world will become a much better place.

My appeal to all Pakistani's is that they should study Islam in a rational and scientific light and not believe in the hadith and false Quranic interpretations of ultra conservative scholars. The Muslim modernist movement is slowly gaining strength but is not yet very noticable. But noticable enough for conservative scholars to be attacking. I been to few sites on the internet where the modernist movement has been attacked and where it is decribed as being a distortion of Islam. When it is this Islam, the one that has turned societies in ALL Muslim countries towards extremism, the one persecutes its minorities and the one that threatens India and the entire sub continent. After a brief period of intellectual and scientific freedom and achievement by the early Muslims, they resorted to conservatism and and remain so to this day. But there has always been voices in Islam that has spoken out against the conservatives, many of these have paid with their lives. But the struggle goes on.
We are heading towards a brighter understading of Islam and the POSITIVE way in which it inter-relates with all other religions.
Once this movement is introduced to Pakistan it will immediately attract the people. The knowledge and wisdom of the sufi's is already recieving a renewed interest in Pakistan. This thanks partly to Pakistan's Sufi Qawaali heritage and of course the Sufi pop band Junoon who have been recieved with great success in the sub-continent and abroad.
I hope my message has been recieved by Muslims among other people and they will begin to re-think about their faith in a positive and enlightened way.

To peace on Monday, December 6, 1999 - 04:47 pm:,

Lucky for you, you live in paradise. To experience humanity you have to come down to the gutter. Please believe me when I say there are real idiots out there and they believe the exact opposite of you. I mean they really believe it.

To Punjabi Kuri on Saturday, December 4, 1999 - 10:44 am:,

What happened to sikhs during the 80's was engineered by indira gandhi and her gangsters. And pakis took full advantage of that. You have mentioned massacres against christians yet you do not question their methods of conversion and what about the discrimination against non christians which is rampant in predominantly christian areas like assam and nagaland. In these so called massacres and rapes after investigation they were either found to be groundless or there were other non religious motives. In many cases the christian church exploited the situation to portray the hindus in a bad light in the world press. If the areas you mentioned do split away from india then the whole subcontinent will be converted to islam. Please do not fall into western trap and believe the white professors they have their own aganda and do not sincerely know the muslim mind. I have lived with the pukka pakistanis and I know they see all of india as a big prize for conversion. Punjab's security is in united india because us sikhs will be their first target in retribution. I do not want to sound patronising, please read from as wide sources as you can not just the white professors. In the universities in UK they are under orders to court sikh girls for conversion. This is not a rumour but a fact I have seen these guys distribute these leaflets.

To Punjabi Kuri on Wednesday, December 1, 1999 - 06:51 pm:,

Interesting article, but where did the hindus learn this conversion business ? From the mullahs and christians. As for BJP , they are a hindu party but they do give more credit to sikhs than the congress party. I live in a predominantly christian country and ruled by a christian democrat type party and I do not feel threatened by them and I sincerely hope that BJP would in the end turn up like a party which is hindu in name but respects all minorities and religions and puts us all on an equal footing in the eyes of the law.

to all those concerned, boy you guy's really have something to talk and bitch about. what is our identity, what's our nationality. come on guys we're all from one big country, that got divided up because of some stupid politic reasons. muslims, hindus and sikhs at one time shared food,water and land together, because of a number of idiotic people everybody has to suffer and live in hatred. look how long india nad pakistan have been fighting over kashmir, where has it got us-no where.the whole world is laughing at us. forget what other country's are doing, try sticking to those that are of the same colour and nationality as you.

A response to Sunil,
I am going to make this message brief, as I am busy studying for exams.
The comment you said about Sikhs in Pakistan is true, and that is why you do not see any Sikh running to live in Pakistan. However, that to me is besides the point since very few Sikhs choose to live in Pakistan.
About the comment you made about Pakistan supplying Sikhs arms, I think this has been a little exaggerated. For a Sikhi class I took last year we had to look at the events that occured in Punjab. My proffessor concluded (he is white), chech out some unbiased literature and they will say the same too. True, Sikhs did flee to Pakistan but it was an attempt to escape the oppressive Indian government. Okay must move on. Your comment about Muslim men trying to convert Sikh girls.... I think that is being really paranoid and is Bull. I don't think Sikhs have anything to worry about. If a couple of Sikh girls want to convert... that's there business. Sikhs are not into forcing people to stay in a faith that they don't want to be a part of... and on the other side I have known a few Muslims to convert to Sikhism and Hinduism... so this conversion business works in all ways.
Okay, you commented about how I should not forget about all my brothers and sisters who died for India. Well,I think it is really ironic that the same country they fought for was the one who turned against them and tried to wipe them out. Sikhs, and all other minorites are oppressed. They are considered okay as long as they don't threaten Hinduism. Before you try to deny this, why don't you look at why Christians are being persecuted, and why they are being forcibly converted back to Hinduism. If most people (Hindu's) are so tolerant than where were they when the Sikhs got butchered in 1984? Why aren't they doing anything about the Christian massacres? Why don't they organize protests against the government? Why did the Congress party come into power after 1984?
Anyway, I never said that I want or don't want India to separate... I am simply playing the devil's advocate. As I.J. Singh says in his book "Sikhs and Sikhism: A view with a Buyist" that the development of other religions in India is not due to the tolerance of the Hindus, but to those political groups who were in power. For example, Islam spread in India because Muslims ruled India for a period of time etc. etc.
I think Sunil, you need to get out of denial. The truth is many Sikhs, Kashmiri's and Christians are not happy with India. Instead of proposing a solution, you offered a little speech on the Sikhs who died for India... this kind of appeal at one's emotions get your cause nowhere.
Lastly, I would like to say that in a utopian world, all asians regardless of their religon should get along... but that would never happen. I have many muslim and hindu friends and I never treat them as less... just because someone questions their identity as an Indian it does not mean that they have anything against Hindu's... it's just they would want independence and be freed from a dominant Hindu regime who is clearly violating their basic human rights.
Once again, in this I have never said that I want to separate or don't want to separate... I am just being a devil's advocate. However, I will leave you a saying, and think about it... "Once a genie is out of a bottle, it is hard if not impossible to put it back in..". I think this holds true to minority groups who want to separate ie. Kashmir, Nagaland, Assam. Once a movement is started it is really hard to stop it... and oppression and torture methods can't stop it.....
Thus, I conclude that if the Indian gov't doesn't clean up there act, India is in serious trouble. So instead of trying to appeal to me... why don't you send a letter to the Indian gov't...

I am a British Asian, and I think that it is wrong the way that second and third generation asians of whatever background, are using religion as a tool to release their frustrations and disillusionment with their identities.
Because it is true that many of those who are fighting in these gangs across the country under the banner of their faith, have no idea about their culture or history. An example would be those people who go to Asian Gigs, get drunk and begin fights between Sihks and Muslims!! For both sides, are they being true to their faiths? I think not...I think before fighting each other these people should understand what it is they are really fighting for, because to relate it to religion is stupid!!
Another thing how many of these people actually have very good Sihk or Muslim friends but do not include them in their prejudices because 'they are different' because they know them...
Simply by mixing with people who come from different backgrounds and dismissing what religious differences you have makes such a great difference..You find that you get on better than with people from your own faith, it is a matter of opening your mind..
I'm currently at University in Durham where there are very few Asians and you try to hold on to whatever Asian friends you have, you learn a great deal from one another and it is a great experience..So I hope some of you PINDU's listen to what I'm saying and you know who are, don't let the majority of us Asians down!!

Punjabi Kuri
Let me tell you that if Hindu chauvenism exists in India, Muslim chauvenism is 100 times stronger in Pakistan. In Pakistan Sikhs like you have no respect and are pure and simple Kafirs. Do you not realise the beauty of India? How can you forget your Sikh brothers who fight and die for India?
During the troubles in Punjab I would like to say that Pakistan took full advantage of this situation and armed and trained Sikh men and boys launch terrorist strikes in India. This, because Pakistan simply wants to see India break into pieces so that IT can be the main power in the sub-continent. Don't forget that historically Hindus and Sikhs have stook together in the face of Muslim oppression. Both Hinduism and Sikhism are peace loving and tolerant religions. Can this be said of Islam?
What happened in Delhi in 1984 is very sad and horrific but we must move on and make a better future. Yes Hinduism may seem dominant in India but that is only because it is the majority religion. Most Hindus are peaceloving people and do not have ill feelings towards non-Hindus.
You must know of the Parsee community, that community many centuries ago had to leave their homeland, Iran, because they faced the typical Muslim oppression. They however found refuge in India, the main reason for this was that Hinduism taught tolerance and hospitality. When the Muslim Arabs first arrived to India, they can as learners and traders we welcomed them also and they began to live alongside Hindus peacefully. But India has throughout its history suffered barbaric invasions by Muslims who have looted, raped and massacred innocent people.
Mahmud of Ghazni was one such invader who invaded India and destroyed many temples including the Somnath temple. He had a hatred towards Hindus and loved killing them. Today he is seen by a Muslims as a great historical Muslim leader. It is true that many activities of some Hindu groups like the Arya Samaj were not good but we Hindus and Sikhs are very close to one another. Even abroad wherever we live we stay close to one another and involve ourselves in each others religious fetivals. There is a true brotherhood between Hindus and Sikhs. India stands as a secular state and has thriving communities of people of all religions. Indian history, art, philosophy, these things are unmatched anywhere. This all comes from our tolerant and open minded culture.
India has problems now but together we must overcome them.
And let me also tell you that there IS a campaign by Muslims to convert Sikh girls to Islam. Many Sikh girls have fallen into this trap. Although why the follower of such a beautiful and tolerant religion would want to convert to the Mullah driven Islam is beyond me. Although I have been told by some Muslim friends that the real Islam is very much like Hinduism and Sikhism and has an equally humanistic approach to life. I hope this is true.
Please do not betray our countries leading fathers, do not betray our martyrs in Kargil.

Hi,
It is really disturbing to see people fighting on this web. To Nazi, get a life. You need it!!! Your hate shall one day lead to you demise!!!
About the comment some guy made about Sikh girls marrying Muslims guys... that doesn't really happen. I am a Sikh girl and I am engaged to a Sikh guy (it was my choice). Most of my Sikh friends want to marry a Sikh guy. However, there are females as well as males who do marry outside of their faith. These include Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Christians etc. etc. Even though this may not be a good thing (in some peoples opinions) it is a reality of living in a multicultural society and diverse world. So to my Sikh brother... don't freak out!!!
In comment to that guy who was saying that Muslims want to convert all people of others faith, it is the same thing in India. I could sit here the whole day and provide examples of how Hindu's (the people who are in power, mainly) are trying to get minority groups to assimilate into their mainstream religion. Look at what the Sikhs have gone through, or look at what the Christians are going through since Christmas 1998. It is a very sad thing.
Unfourtanately (or maybe fortunately) India will most likely split up. People are getting sick of being persecuted because they are a minority group. Christains, Muslims and Sikhs have all been persecuted at one time or another. I really question if I can consider myself an Indian when I look at the massacres in dehli in 1984 and see that the government is not willing to provide justice. Even though the killing in Punjab have become minimal, I can not forget my brothers and sisters who were killed on the fateful day of November 1 to 3 in 1984. Also when I hear the BJP slogan "Hindi, Hindu, Hindu shastra" that makes me question if I even want to be an indian. This disgusting and facist attitudes have got to stop. I think that everyone who reads this should send a letter or do something to support the minority groups in India- or there will not be an India left. Also, womens rights and caste inequalities have got to be stopped. That's why my grandfather (on my mom's side) became a Sikh because he wanted to escape this "caste" system.
To all my Sikh brothers and sisters, remember that our Guru's preached EQUALITY, REJECTED CASTE SYSTEMS, AND MADE MEN AND WOMEN EQUAL. Our Guru's preached such a beautiful message, and we have failed to live up to it.
Thanks for reading my message. If I have offended anyone please forgive me.

Dear Phanas and Pravos;

Mr SS Guraya has made a very clear point by quoting the Gurbani and allow me to add another line from the Sikh Japji Sahib:

"Nanak akhan sabh ko akhai, ik du ik saina"

Meaning =(Satguru Nanak says that all give discourses about God and each one thinks to be wiser than the other)

I am also a seeking Sikh. We should avoid condenming any religion or faith that believes in the existance of GOD. It is blasphemy. A Sikh's morning prayers begins with EK ONKAR = God is only One.

Let's search for the Truth = Sat.

To Lahori Munda on Wednesday, October 27, 1999 - 02:20 pm:,

I agree with most of what you say but I personally feel that muslims are undermining my culture and do not respect me or my religion. That is the reality for us, may be you should look at the actions of you fellow muslims and what they are up to.

In response to the comments made by you guys in reply to the message which I posted a few days ago. All, I can say is that whether we are Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Jew,etc, we are all children of one God. This hatred among ourselves has got to stop. Just try to remember, we are on this Earth once, and while we are alive majority of us want to go through life with as liitle disruption as possible. So why not be tolerant of one another's faiths and culture. As for hidden agenda's instigated by any faith, well thats just total rubbish. I think its a sense of insecurity and ignorance probably due to ones own failings. These people who look for hidden an agenda are so unsure of themselves and their faiths that they are constantly looking at other religions as scapegoats in order to justify their actions. I myself am a Muslim, with very strong faith. I also have extensive knowledge of other religions, and to me thay preach the same good things. The unfortunate side to all this is, many people proclaim to be devotees of their faiths but in reality are nothing more than hypocrites who incite hatred so that they can keep their pretigious positions in society. Its time to be positive and try to learn about other faiths and adopt the positive aspects into our lives.
As for those people who disagree with about the divide and rule policy practiced in colonial Indian, please dont be so naive. You guys are probably grateful to the white Sahibs for robbing our country and then leaving it moth eaten. Dont you understand India was called "The Jewel in the Crown" for nothing! Think about it . We guys are doing exactly how they prgrammed us fifty odd years before, their conditioning is still in our blood. So stop bickering and unite for a common cause and respect one another. No one is perfect there are good and bad elements in every society.

Lahori Munda.

You're trying to keep Sikhs ignorant to what your mullah's are doing, so in the hope of sikhs ignoring it...you can carry on converting Sikh girls. No matter what you say, Sikhs will keep up the fight, I believe in peace too, but I also believe in protecting ones culture, religion and identity against those that are out to destroy it (aka Muslims).

To Savraj on Tuesday, October 26, 1999 - 12:56 pm:,

How can the whities divide an already divided nations. A nation divided on religious lines. India was divided way before the english came. They only had to rule and nothing else

To Lahori Munda on Monday, October 25, 1999 - 03:29 pm:;

It was the muslims who first fell under the divide and rule policy of white man and divided India into two.

To Lahori Munda on Monday, October 25, 1999 - 03:29 pm:,

Can you explain the leaflets ditributed by your muslim student orgs, urging muslims students to entrap and convert sikh/hindu girls to islam by any means?

You muslims do have an agenda and we are just waking up to deal with it.

Hello to fellow human beings,

Having read many of the comments posted by on these pages. I have become greatly distressed at the nature of the material forwarded by some people. When are you guys going to ever learn that there is no gain from spreading hatred. Cant you people go out there and do something positive in your lives which will benefit all of humanity, irrelevant of a person's creed. Remember one thing , all communities, societies and religions have good and bad elements. It is the nature (FITRET) of mankind to covet and try to do better than his brother. For this end result, religion is used as a tool to acheive division and destruction. The basic principle's of all religions are the same, they try to bring about order so that we can all live our short lives in harmony with one another.
What difference does it make if a muslim girls elopes with a sikh guy or a sikh girl elopes with a muslim guy? I dont beleive for a minute that the actions of our youths are the results of a wider conspiracy instigated by our religous leaders. I am afraid it is the sign of the times as our youth get exposed to western values and attitudes. But the overall factor in all this is our attitudes and intolerance towards other faiths. Our prejudiced views and true understanding of our own history and faith. This really confuses the youngsters and this in turn results in them being driven away from mosques and gurduwara's. So please guys get a life, do something constructive and positve instead of being ignorant buffoons in using religion as a weapon of hatred. Dont you guys ever learn a lessons from history, so stop being CHAMCHAY to white man's policy of divide and rule!


Khuda Hafiz
Rabb Rakka


Insaniyat ka hamdardi

Maqbool Rafique (Proud Punjabi too!)

Anonymous on Friday, October 22, 1999 - 01:05 am:

I think that is a very wise idea.

In the U.S. people sometime hold Sikhcamps in the Summer.

An example was the Robinhood Camp (I belive it was called that but I am not sure) in Pennsylvania. In this camp kids were taught about from their history to how to wear turbans.

To Savraj on Thursday, October 21, 1999 - 07:30 am:,

There are many gurudwaras doing this sort of thing, but I always feel it is not enough. We need to go beyond just the teaching in gurudwaras, we need to set up our own social welfare institutions. We badly need them as we do have a lot of social problems in our communities like drink drugs and abuse. It can all be financed by the collections from gurudwaras. Very much along the lines of jewish organisations.

Guys

Stop fighting.

It is parents responsibility to teach their kids about the importance of their religion.

I doubt that any Sikh or Hindu who is well educated in their religion will ever convert to other religion.

The problem we expect our kids to understand about the religions by themselves. If you stop and think for a minute then you will realize that people who grew up in India had older people like thier grandparents and granduncles and grandaunts who told thaem stories about their religion. Every morning and evening you could hear Bani and Bhajans from the loud speakers in the Gurudwara and Mandirs. What I mean to say that we were exposed to all the religious stuff.

Here kids do not have that advantage. It is up to us to teach our kids not only to read and write Indian languages but tell them about their history.

It would be a good idea if the Gurdwara started programs to teach kids about their History for an hour every Sunday. Language does not have to be a Pfoblem. There are lots of books written in English on the History of Sikhism. The Hindus can do the same too.

To nazi on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 10:52 pm:,

Listen nasti boy,
I am not far as you think, your prayers will be answered. Be patient.

dear analnonymous
schizophrenia is not curable but the symptoms can be controlled with the help of psychopharma.
or come to deutschland, i would try my best to satisfy your other dreamful desires.

hi analnonymous,
i am still wandering what on the earth has made you so mad about good people like pakis.
if you just relax and think twice, you would notice that YOU and these PAKIS belong to same 2nd class human RACE.

lets have some respect here for everyone.no one is running off with muslims.there might be the odd case but 98%of girls are fine.dont tar them with the same brush.thanks

To somebody on Sunday, October 3, 1999 - 07:32 am:,

I am neither peasant Jat or a whimpy Bhappa, But I am certainly a vicious singh, to take down any paki loving whimps like you.

To somebody on Sunday, October 3, 1999 - 07:29 am:,

Nobody becomes Somebody, what a sexchange. Mr Khusra. Took you a long time to respond. Looks like you did have a kopfschmerzen and all the lice started to jump out of your hot head in protest.

hi mr. analnonymous
by the way, are you jatt or bhapa?

hi mr. analnonymous
by the way, are jatt or bhapa?

To nobody on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 08:33 am:,

Wow Mr Clean, so what is naive moron like you from squeaky clean Germany doing on this dirty indian web site. Talk to some of your sqeaky clean indian friends about islam and you will find out. I could go on but don't want to give you a kopfschmerzen.

to anonymous
infact it was my 1st visit in this stupid website.
got stunned as i read primitiv, superfluous people like you. who have nothing else in there heads than instgate people. infact i have no idea what is going on in UK with your sisters and wives. i live in germany and have very few dirty indians like you around me and am quite happy about it.

To nobody on Saturday, September 25, 1999 - 01:15 am: AND ruhi,

You 2 sound like couple of morons. Imagine your sister or brother convering to islam through hook or crook. Then I want to see how cool headed you can remain with this unity shite. You 2 just have no idea of what other religions especially islam has install for you naive nyncompoops. Read some of history. Do not worry when time comes we will defend you.

hi ruhee grewal,
you absolutely right. my advice to as a good friend would be, don,t take these 3rd world immigrants serious. it is shear wastage of positive energy of one's. had they been good humans, they would have atleast learned something from western culture and western thinking.
infact they are dirty inhabitants of indian sub continent.

To all my SIKH brothers and sisters i'm liviing in USA i didn't know about what's been going on in UK with our SIKH sisters i think these muslim boys r sick to do all this 2 our religion they r just tryin 2 repeat history like they did with our gurus we really need 2 do something about this i'm just 2 angry from reading all this about what's been going on in UK with SIKH girls

This is 4 all my SIKH sisters watch out from these muslim boys u just might regret it all these muslims are the same don't think if hez nice and all that he's different from other muslims boys they are all the same they will change you into something that u don't want so just watch out .

Sas-ri-akal

Get that chip off your shoulder you self righteous bigoted scumbag. Go and kiss the mussalmans ass as you so eagerly display your love for them.

You dont speak for any Sikh other than yourself so shut your mouth. Guru Nanak ji was a Hindu. Presumably you'd hate his family as well.

And enough about caste. One thing Sikhs have abjectly failed to do is get rid of the caste system. Except instead of Brahmans we have those bastions of equality and tolerance the Jats, who hate chamars/tarkhan/all non jats with a vengeance. Fact is you sound like a typical fundamentalist fanatic jat. If you are writing from Canada or UK I have a message asswipe, GO BACK AND FIGHT FOR YOUR KHALISTAN IN INDIA. You stinking coward.

Just hurry up and convert to Islam if you want to spread your message of hatred.

self-righteous asshole.

by the way,

Sas-Ri-Akal

KHALISTAN ZINDABAD

DELETED

Sorry this is NOT a political site and we do not want any inflammatory, propanda of any nature.

editors

WHAT CASTE IS KHATKAR AND JHUTTY OR JHUTTI...THANKS.

To Jat Punjabi and others,

I know a lot of this happening in the UK, but you must remember something, the Indian/S.Asian population has been settled in large no.s since the 1960s, you guys in US and Canada have only recently started to settle in large nos, you guys can learn a lot from the UK indians,we have been thru some things that you may also go thru. You have to be wary of this problem, because wherever Sikhs/Hindus/Indians go, muslims/pakistanis will always follow.

To Ranjeet and the others,

My cousin brother is married to a Muslim girl who ran away from home. She was being beaten and maltreated. I thought that the kinds of things you were saying was hype, until she told me about how Muslim women are treated: they are not even given the opportunity of education. She also said one thing that sticks in my mind when she said that she and her friends "wished they were born as Sikhs" because she loved her Indian culture (although she is Pakistani) but found that Muslims were very sexist and violent. Also, many Muslim girls try to get out. She also said that some Pakistani girls are killed and the police never find out.

I would have fallen for muslim propaganda if I had not lived in India for a while. There is the problem, we do not educate our children in the sikh history and sacrifices our gurus made.
What left a lasting impression on me was when I went to Amritsar to visit Harmandir Sahib for the time, I went around to the area where they keep the old artfacts etc. there I saw the paintings of all the sikh shaheeds being butchered by muslims. That made me very angry and made my blood boil even though I wasn't even 10 years old. This is what we should do in all our gurudwaras in UK, ie set up little museums with the copy of the paintings from harmandir sahib so that our young children can see them. As the saying goes a picture paints a thousand words.

Sorry guys,

I meant "This task will also be a service to our religion and society." instead of "This talk will also be a service to our religion and society."

Sahab ji,

One thing for sure, nothing is going to happen unless someone take an initiative. Since it's happening mainly in UK, it becomes responsibility of UK Sikhs to take an initiative. But, something needs to be done. People should get together. Someone should start by making an announcement at a Gurdwara Sahib that someone is going to do something about it. If there is a financial need, I am sure our Sikh brothers and sisters won't say no. We are good at spending money in building Gurdwaras. This talk will also be a service to our religion and society.

Rab Rakha

To Jat Punjabi and Anonymous,

what you are saying is true and it is good that we agree. I also believe that girls who ran away and have converted, who have come back after learning their lesson must be made to feel welcome, they must never be ashamed to come back. We have make them realise that you may leave Waheguru but Waheguru never leaves you.

The thing with a lot of young girls is that they do not want to listen to their parents or elders. However,if it comes from a peer's mouth or some girl who has already been thru it, it may make them take heed and listen. I believe these girls who do come back, should give talks to other girls to tell them about their experience, what they go thru, what pitfalls there are, what tricks to look out for, this will make other girls aware.

Here are a few other methods muslims use:

-they have their sisters and other muslim girls to befriend sikh girls, in order to get closer to them .

-they are very good brainwashers, i have had discussions with muslims about islam and the way they talk you can feel that you are getting sucked in, I believe they develop and learn these techniques to do this. They are very clever salesmen, the way they talk, they could sell ice to an eskimo.

-I have heard also that in some instances (i don't know if it is heresay) that some muslim males have pretended to be sikhs, grow beards and wear turbans in order to approach sikh girls.

We must be aware that there are many muslims like this, but not all of them are, some actually are quite tolerant and respect beliefs of other religions and don't go out there to convert others. We must also remember that we as Sikhs should respect all other religions and not stoop to low levels and slag them off.

Ranjeet and Jat Punjabi,

We should set up reception centers to welcome the strays back into our community. I believe this not happening at the moment.

Yes sir Mr. Ranjeet, this is true that Sikhs are hard-working people and they do forget to spend more time with their kids, not just in UK, but everywhere else in the world including USA where I am from. That's why it's important to educate parents. This is also true that some of the Sikh girls do it on purpose. I ran into this Jat Sikh girl from England on one of the other chat sites. She jumped on me one time just because I asked someone else if he was Punjabi. She basically started yelling at me asking what difference does it make what religion people follow. I was like what got into this woman. That kinds of women are prejudice against Sikhs. But, that's OK. It isn't our problem. Let them learn their lessons the hard way. But, it does become our responsibilty to make the innocent girls aware of it.

One of the ways to educate people would be through our Gurudwaras. We have Gurdwara Sahib in every major city. We can do it through fliers. We can do it by having video-interview with the women who are already trapped into this hell. They don't have to show their faces on the video of they don't want to reveal themselves.

More later

Rab Rakha

To Jat Panjabi,

the thing about this website is that the main readers are from USA and Canada, where there are a lot less pakistanis there than in UK, a lot of americans and canadians are only now becoming aware of this problem. The Uk Sikhs are aware of this problem because it has been happening for a while. The truth of the matter is muslims like to pick on Sikh girls when they are very young like 15-16 years, our girls at that age seem to be very impressionable and very free and easy, a lot of time a lot of Sikh guys would not go near with them with a bargepole, pakistanis go for anything, you'd find that their young are taught at a very young age to hate Sikhs, they get taught in mosques to go for Sikh girls. When these girls get involved, they run away and convert and maybe even marry, sometimes these girls are given one way tickets to pakistan and sold into prostitution, you'd be amazed how many muslims (pakistanis) in UK are involved in drugs and prostitution, a lot of girls realise the mistake they made and regret very badly but the problem is that they are too ashamed to go back to their families. Sometimes these girls have black magic "Kali Jadoo" done on them to make them go for muslim boys, muslims do more "black magic" then hindus or sikhs. However, I believe that there are girls out there who go out with muslims on purpose to stir things up. I also believe that a lot of responsibility lies on the parents, our parents are too busy occupied with working and not paying enough time and attention to their children, the children stray (especially girls) and get into bad crowds, muslims pick up on this, you see they are opportunists, some of these girls rebel and I think a lot of them go out with muslim boys as a sign of rebellion. Maybe another reason is that alcohol is one of the biggest problems that face sikh families, how many of guys know of alcoholic sikh fathers who feel sorry for themselves and start abusing the rest of the family, this causes family problems, this also leads our girls to stray, these girls are maybe starving a bit of love and attention and they start looking for it and naively go to some muslim boy who has other intentions. These are some of the reasons why I think that sikh girls get involved with muslim boys, but I think that it is not a black and white issue, there are lots of shades of grey. We have to realise our girls are no different from any other girls in the west, they want boyfriends, love and attention etc etc, but we have to make them realise that they have to be wary of muslim males.

Another thing you have to be aware of is that are lot of muslim girls running away from home too, but you do not hear about a lot of this because muslims do not like to be open (we sikhs are more open and honest about our problems), they prefer much to sweep everything under the carpet. Do you know how many muslim girls are going out with sikh boys, white guys , black guys, quite a lot. Do you know muslim families do to their daughters and their boyfriends if they run away? They have bounty hunters come for them to force them to bring them home, sometimes even hire someone to track down and kill them. A lot of these muslim girls are in hiding, they change their names and identities to escape from their families (sounds like mafia informants under witness protection programmes doesn't it?)

Feel free to give me your opinions on this. Are you form UK?

First of all, every Sikh should understand this pain and should work together to save our sisters from being manipulated. One of the ways, we can spread the word is through internet - emails and websites. I know mostly our sisters will tell us to mind our business because they won't believe it until it really happens to them. Therefore, it might help to send them some articles like the one I saw on hindustan.net, although I don't remember where. Please let me know, I can mail it to you.

Sat Sri Akal

Anonymous2,

I agree with your analysis. On the other hand the UK culture is thoroughly destroying Islam as well. More and more people are reading the koran as a result of Islamic marketing and they are seeing the stupidity written in it and are asking some disturbing question about Islam. I believe in the next few years we will see a backlash against this Islamic marketing.

Plus we should set up organisations to bring our kin folks back into our religions who have earlier converted to Islam. And those who want to come back should be openly welcomed back.

To Anonymous,

Setting up camps is one thing, but I don't think it'll be too successful. Even Hindu girls are going with Muslims boys, too. Not even they (Hindu's - with all their money) are handling the Muslims. Their girls are worse than Sikh's. Jews wouldn't help us they're only concerned about their own people. You may be able to get co-operation if it's an anti-muslim network, from non-muslim religious organisation, to unite us against Islam, and to spead news and expose Islam as the threat that it is.

At the moment, just have to educate young people, and tell them about the history of India and how the Sikhs came about. Tell them about what the Muslims did to our people, and show them that the muslims in the western world are still the same, it's just that they have changed their strategy. You have to educate the girls because they are more vulnerable than boys, even though many would argue that they're 'independent, modern girls with a brain'. Those types, don't even want to listen.

With Sikhs youth, you've got to get them interested when young. I see many young Sikhs, that take pride in being Sikh, but they don't know the first thing about Sikhism. They're more proud of being Jatt or Punjabi, than Sikh. I think Bhangra and Khalistan may have alot to do with it, because that seems to be where they're channelling their interests.

Anonymous2,

But what can we do in UK to forewarn our children. I think that we should organise sikh groups like the boy scouts etc. Jews also organise these activities for their childrens. Hindu also do this, may be we can get help from hindu or jewish organisations to set up such camps etc. With all the money that goes into our gurudwaras I sure some can be set a side to provide for this kind of ventures.

On the other hand muslims girls in UK are leaving their families in droves as well. Muslims are loosing as many as they are converting.

To Anonymous on 31 Aug 12:26am,

SATSRIAKAL,
What you said about Sikh girls being targeted by muslims for conversion. I have to agree with you. It has gone so far already, that alot of Sikh girls hide the fact that they are seeing muslim boys. I live in the UK and I've seen the increase in this problem. If we don't do nothing there will be nothing left of our Sikh community. Muslims know exactly the damage they're doing, as they have been doing damage throughout the ages.

And I think this Rajinder Nijjhar is a Kutah Muslim, posing as a Sikh in order to decieve! And muslims are allowed to decieve to non-believers of Islam.

JS,

Yes this guy is a mega moorakh.

Indu,

I agree with you, " Be a sikh before being a Khalisthani ".

hey guys......Indu Disouza, anonymous, anonymous and other anonymous:

This Nijjar guy is the biggest moorakh born on earth. Anyone who is on the net for more than 6 months knows it. So don't take him seriously and make or strength your views based on his bakkbak......

JS

To all gurudwara going sikhs,

I am a christian myself and my great grandparents have been christians since 1826. I want to tell all sikhs that yours is a very beautiful religion, one whose teachings and scriptures have not been altered at all, so try to follow it as it is and not try to relate it to any other religion, sikhism is not just a religion, it is a way of living. I am very much thankful to the lord for having me come into contact with some very good sikhs and get chances to read and study sikh philosophy. Your gurus were great prophets of the Lord. Be a sikh first before a khalistani. God bless. Amen.

Indu Disouza,

I am a sikh and like you disgusted by some sikhs who try to portray sikhism as a revealed religion like christianity and islam. True we have borrowed from these religions, but sikhism has nothing to do islam or christianity or any of the revealed religions. These misguided sikhs are often khalistanis and do not want to hear any criticism of islam. Well I argue with them and tell them what these muslims do ie they target sikh girls in UK for conversions and I am sure Mr Rajinder Nijjhar knows too well. And I am sure these muslims laugh at him because they do not believe in any of this crap of unity and greater punjab.

To anonymous on Friday, August 27, 1:18 am.

What i am trying to say is that after reading what rajinder nijjhar is trying to do is to tell us that islam is the true religion and that the prophets of christianity and sikhism had tried to teach us that. Our bible does not talk of any second christ called nanak and so he should stop trying to integrate religions, it is one of the things that cannot be done, every religion is good by itself and does not need to be mixed with the philosophy of other religion. If he relates sikhism to islam, it is sensible, but relating prophets of sikhism to christ is not sensible because we christians regard all other religions and their followers to be worshipping devil or satan. rajinder nijjhar should just stay a sikh and not make stupid and open judgements that people who are in charge of gurudwaras and are associated with them are not truely following the teachings of sikhism. Everything is good in its own unique essence and rajinder is just trying to be a philosopher, he wants to tell us that "I KNOW". I hope you now understand what I mean. I have experience with nearly all major religions of the world and I believe each one is equally beautiful and need not be mixed with other religions, we already have so much religious disputes and confusion and what rajinder is saying is just senseless. If he says this in my church, only then will he shut his mouth, because our pastor will tell him the facts from the holy bible.

Indu Disouza on Thursday, August 26, 1999 - 12:10 pm:,

A little confused about your post. What are you trying to say ?.

To Rajinder Nijjhar, You seem to be lost in your own world, WE HAVE ENOUGH RELIGION TO HATE, so stop bringing more stupid philosophies of yours to us, christianity still regards you as a devil worshipper, just because you have a college degree does not mean that you know enough to add to what christ had said, you remain a hindu sikh muslim or whatever damn devil you believe in, you are just another swami prabhupad, or rajneesh, so SHUT UP AND LET CHRISTIANITY BE WHAT IT IS, WAKE UP AND GET REAL. SHAME ON YOUR DAD WHO MAY NOT HAVE BEEN A JAT.

A question to Sufi lovers,

If sufis had achieved such spirituality then why did they still remain muslims?

VAISAKHI


This is the time for farmers to put sickles to their fields to harvest their crops but Royal Farmer Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji put His Sickle to the Crop that was sown by Satguru Nanak Dev Ji, watered by the five Satgurus, Angad Ji, Amar Dass Ji, Ram Das Ji, Arjun Dev Ji and Tegh Bahadur Ji and Protected by three Royal Kings, Har Gobind Ji, Har Rai Ji and Har Krishan Ji.

Crop was ripe after the sixth Satguru Tegh Bahadur Ji had uttered the Ultimate Sermon and had given the finishing touches to Sikhism. The Mohammadan Kafirs assisted by the satanic Khatri Mullahs and non-Mullahs, the Turkoos, who had created havoc in India and the honour, PATT, of the people was at stake. Satguru Tegh Bahadur Ji let the sons of Satan create Darkness by staying away from the Panjab and on His return, they had created havoc and awful attrocities to the public that grounds were made for the ultimate Gospel.

Unlike a Baadshah who rules over an Abaadi or town, Sachae Paatshah rules over people's heart by protecting their honours, Patt, as Khalsas did in the case of Ahmad Shah Abdali by rescuing the young girls from those Kafirs, called Turkoos in Panjabi and returning even Kafir's own Begums caught in the process.

Royal King Gobind Singh Ji Baptised only those who were prepared to serve God, Akaal Purakh, without expecting any monetary reward, TANKHAH, in return. Remember those Brar Jatts holding the reign's of Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji's horse to demand their wages or Tankhah but only few among them did not go for Tankhah but Amrit. That is Amrit of Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji is not for the FOOLS but for those who are GURMUKHS.

The first initiating group was of Five signifying that the Khalsa shall be FREE of the Five spiritual temptations of the heart i.e. KAAM, KARODH, LOBH, MOH and HANKAAR.

They were Baptised by drinking the water of River Satluj, meaning that they will fight for the LAJH of SATT i.e. AKAAL PURAKH. The sweetener put in by Sahib Kaur, also called the Mother of Khalsas, stands for Holy Spirit(SURTI) meaning that when the Khalsa's heart shall be pure and free of hypocrisy or deceit, then they will experience Agape, the divine Love, which is much sweeter and stronger than the love of kith and kin. Sons of Satan, the fanatics display bitterness of the evil spirit of Satan.

They drank from the same pot meaning that only the twice-born people who had buried their tribal egos, JEONDAE HI MAR JANA, and they are fit and free of any communicable diseases can partake in the Baptism.

Further, as a Pandit or a village priest will not accept the sacrifice of an animal which is not whole i.e. is lame or disfigured, so it is not appropriate for a person to present himself to Akaal Purakh for becoming a Khalsa if he is not whole. Common sense prevailing, even the secular armies do not accept physically unfit people as soldiers.

Drinking from the same pot also could only be partaken by those who are disease-free, otherwise they might make the other Khalsas sick. In short, people who are JATTI, physically fit, and SATTI, know the Word of God and are Gurmukh could become Khalsas.

It is after Baptism that they have the announcement or JAKAARA, "WAHEGURU JI KAA KHALSA; WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH" i.e. the Khalsa is the Army of Akaal Purakh and their Victory over evil is in the name of Akaal Purakh.

As Khalsas have purified their hearts through lessons of SATT from the House of Satguru Nanak Devji, the House of Second Panth, their salutation is SATT SIRI AKAAL; BOLAE SOO NIHAAL. Such people do not stand in the need of a "Guru" for any more education as within them is resting satguru. That is why Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji, PIRAN DA PIR(UCH DA PIR), presented himself to be Baptised by the devout FIVE.

Thus, Khalsa is the Third Panth of solitary Gurmukhs and therefore, they do not need to and should not visit the places of Second Community, the Gurdwaras, where arms are forbidden except to purge and punish the Munn Mukh people, TURKOOS, especially the greedy Granthis, the very root of evil in the Sikh community.

Why you find the so-called Khalsas in Gurdwaras because they are the by products of Munn Mukh Granthis, who themselves do not know Akaal Purakh but Mammon. Thus, the Khalsas you find in the Gurdwaras even do not know that they belong to the Third Panth of philanthropists.

Turkoos of Mohammad were very shameless and cruel people. They would not mind the humble approaches of the Sikhs but they needed sword to understand the language of humanity. Khalsa was the answer and Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji gave the finishing touches to Third Panth of Independent Khalsas, whose foundation stone was laid by Sachae Paatshah Har Gobind Ji.

THUS, "GURUS" MOTHER, FATHER AND PANDIT ASK FOR YOUR MONEY(DHANN); "SATGURU" ASKS FOR YOUR MUNN AND SACHAE PAATSHAH GOBIND SINGH JI ASKED FOR YOUR TANN'S SACRIFICE(BHAINT). THE HIGHEST SACRIFICE IS OF THE TANN, THEN OF MUNN AND LASTLY OF DHANN.

NIJJHAR RAKH TAEK RAAM DI; JAPP NAAM HAR DA; AAS RAKH AKAAL PURKH DI.

Gnostics are the living christs(satgurus) of the Living God, PAAR BRAHM.

AWAL ALLAH NOOR UPAYAE, KUDRAT DAE SABH BANDAE.

Say ALLAH HOO AKBAR.

Hindu is one who knows his "HOND", the tribal identity and residence.
Antonym of a Hindu is a bastard, who does not know his HONDH.
Sikh is a student, who learns spiritual knowledge through SHABD.
Antonym of a Sikh is a KAFIR, who utters non-sense, JHHAKH, from his mouth.
Khalsa is a philanthropist who fights for the honour of the oppressed.
Antonym of a Khalsa is a DUSHT, a cruel person.
Apostles or Nirmallae Sants preach NAAM through Akaal Takht.
Antonym of a Sant is a KOORRIYAAR, an anti-christ.
Har Mandir Sahib Complex is for the Sikhs and the Nirmallae Sants.

NO KHALSAS OR WEAPONS ARE ALLOWED INSIDE THIS HOLY COMPLEX.

"HOLY SPIRIT(SURTTI) SHATTERS THE FETTERS OF THE LETTERS"

DUNIYA MARAE YA JEEVAE; SUTHHRA GHOL PATASAE PEEVAE.


RAAJ KARAE GA KHALSA; AAKI RAHAE NA KOAE

This is to be proclaimed at the three True Thrones, Kes Garh Sahib, Patna Sahib and Hazoor Sahib, the places of the Third Khalsa Panth, where the TATT Khalsas reside but today, it is even proclaimed in the Gurdwaras, the places of the Second Sikh Panth. Most of them hardly know what the proclamation means as they have not seen this proclamation put into practice.

The proclamation means that when Khalsa rules over our hearts, no body will suffer as the result of wrong doings. "AAKI" stands for suffering as the result of going against the moral laws.

Now, in the previous Ages or YUGS, people spoke the truth and there used to be "justice" but in KAL YUG, people do not speak the truth and even some do not have "shame" or SHARM, which is the foundation of "faith" or DHARM. This Satguru Nanak Dev Ji stressed:-

SHARM DHARM SHAPP KHARROTAE; KOORR PHIRAE PARDHAAN WAE LALOO

In a nutshell, Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji was the spiritual incarnation or representation of Shri Krishan Baldev Ji of Doaper Yug, who was the incarnation of "Shiv". In other words, Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji was the incarnation of PAAR SHIV. Further, as Shri Krishan Baldev Ji was the Lord of Universe or what you can "see", DAEKHNA, with your two naked eyes, Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji was the Lord of our "spirits" that you cannot "see" but it is "perceived", PAEKHNA, by the third eye of MUNN or mind. Also, Shri Krishan Baldev Ji was a BAADSHAH, who fought for the secular rights of Pandos, whilst Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji being a PAATSHAH fought against the cruelty and injustices of the kings or BAADSHAHS over the public. A just king whether he was an Indian or a foreigner had the support of Royal King or Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji and his Khalsas. Finally, Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji or His Tatt Khalsas never fought for land or the kingship as the present Malaish Khalsas of MUNN MUKH Banda Bahadur are looking for a secular Khalistan. The Tatt Khalsa of Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji already has Three True Thrones, KHALISTANS, and they are not married people leading a household life. They have given their physical bodies, TANN, for the services of Akaal Purakh. That is, the Khalsas are the Soldiers of God, AKAAL PURAKH DI FAUJ and not the soldiers of any secular kings or authorities as could be in the case of a secular Khalistan.

Now, the Tatt Khalsas are supposed to eradicate the moral malpractices, which in the order of preferences are of TANN, MUNN and DHANN. Typical examples of such moral malpractices are:-

TANN:-
Greedy people do not appreciate the value of "TANN" but they prefer DHANN to TANN. Now, in a marriage ceremony the father of the girl gives his daughter, TANN, to the boy or his family. But in most cases, the boy or his parents, the beggars, also want a lump sum as well, which in most cases the girl's father or parents are not happy to give but they are forced to do so. Remember that dowry used to be the essentials of life given to the girl to make her life comfortable in her father-in-law's house. Today, among the greedy people money dominates the moral laws and the poor people are suffering. There is no need to mention the huge amounts demanded in marriages as these malpractices are well known.

In the West, the surrogate mothers demand huge sums for their services in which they also sell "soul" that makes a person living. Women produce Flesh and they have the right to sell that but not the "soul" that emanates from God!!!

MUNN:-
As MUNN MUKHS worship money and not God, Prithvi Chand, the eldest son of Satguru Ram Dass Ji was a typical example of such "shameless" or BAESHARM people. In Government Offices, bribery and corruption is rampant. I hear the Chief Ministers can get you a Government Post if you pay a certain lump sum as bribe. So, what could you expect from such Officials who have paid money to get their post? Such corrupt Officials are full of "LOBH RATT" and, therefore, Gurbaani or NAAM cannot rest in their hearts but they are the one who often celebrates PAKHAND PATHHS.

DHANN:-
These malpractices involve robberies and cheating as my own land was taken over by my MUNN MUKH sister and her cheat husband through a false court case. It is getting over ten years in courts and there seems to be no end to dispute as he keeps on appealing against judgements that were given in my favour. This malpractice is of the lowest order.

Thus, TATT KHALSAS went for Ahmad Shah Abdali not so much for the material wealth but for saving the honour of girls that he was taking away with him and they saved the, honour, PATT, of those girls. Thus, the highest preferences should be given to the marriage malpractices and the Khalsas should warn the greedy boys and their parents to return those demanded sums. Two warnings should be given and if both are ignored, then they should put to death the boy and/or his parents to death by KIRPAAN.

Why two warnings? The first is that the person might have done the wrong thing under ignorance or foolishness, MOORAKHTAI VICH. Such a mistake is pardonable. The second warning should be a stern warning and if he still disobeys, then that MUNN MUKH person is doing so knowingly. No more third warning but an action to put the matter right. Thus, Sachae Paatshah Gobind Singh Ji allowed first two strikes by the opponent and by the third judgement Strike, the person was put to death.

If TATT KHALSAS can set some examples, then others will dare not do wrong things. If they still carry on, then such stubborn MUNN MUKHS should be put to death for peace of mind of the public. Remember that Khalsas did rule over the hearts of people even during the secular rule of tyrant king Aurangzeb, but to-day, there should not be any problem to put the matters right.

It is sad that the TATT KHALSAS are either sleeping or have been overwhelmed by the MUNN MUKH Khalsas. We do not see any actions in the right direction.

For detailed knowledge of religion, please read my articles.

Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar, M.Sc.
A Jatt of the United Greater Panjab,
Mussallmaan of Pir Nanak Shah,
Gnostics are the living christs (satgurus) and NOT Christians, of Living
Allah (Spirit),
This Dark Age is the Age of Al-Islaam of heart and NOT of any Book.
For articles on sister Christian and Sikh communities, visit:-
http://www.nijjhar.freeserve.co.uk/gnostic.htm
http://www.nijjhar.freeserve.co.uk/sikhism.htm
http://freespace.virgin.net/nijjhar.jatt/gnostic.htm
http://freespace.virgin.net/nijjhar.jatt/sikhism.htm

Some thing from Sufism:

Raba mere haal da mahram tun

Tun hai taana, tun hai baana

Sabh kush mera tun

Kahe husain fakeer nimaana,

Mai nehi sabh tun

Dear Balwinder
Brother stop spreading hatred, what the mughals did was indeed wrong and they were punished by the lord as nothing remains of them but u cant blame the deeds of one family on all muslims, U should know that the the first disciple of Guru Nanak jee was Mardana he was a muslim, the Guru Granth jee has writings of Baba Farid jee he was a muslim and most of all the oneness of God the core of Islam is also believed by sikhs ,the similarties u showed towards Hindism is right but brother doesnt matter what similarities there are u still are a Sikh and u should have an independent identity as for your idependent point of view u are free to stay in India or where ever u want but u have no right to ridicule all muslims on the wrongs and tyrannical rule of the muslims....i should like to correct u no one is amuslim or a sikh by just having the name the deeds are what count......what a true muslim is what Baba Farid was but by having a muslim name or a sikh name doesnt give any one the right to do what they want and then say that religion said.....the swords the mughals used where there own not Allah"s does god tell people to kill, u have a narrow point of view.....u seem to know nothing about your own religion all u are doing is what the mughals did to Sikhs u are doing same back but did u know about your own faith sikhs are protectors of all faiths and oppressors like the mughals.....did u know that Mian Mir a renowned muslim was the person that laid the foundation stone for the Golden Temple of Amritsar........these people were muslims....people like Waaris Shah , Baba Bhule shah,Hashim Shah.....did u know that Warris Shah a muslim was called the pride of punjab......all these muslims and u have the cheek to cause agro among loving people..if u continue to do this i think u wont remain a sikh because i have read the Guru Granth Sahib and i have all respect for it but it doesnt mention anywhere to spread hatred.........i agree with u on the issue of the mughals but the rest of your message is evil and no way confirms with sikhism, i have both muslim and sikh friends and we all laughed at what low level thinking u have to me u seem a mughal more than a sikh.....read the writings of Baba Nanek jee,Baba Farid jee, Baba Kabir jee, Baba Bhulle shah , Babaa Waaris Shah, Milki Ram, Mohammed Bhutta and then think and think again on what u wrote.If u criticise, criticise the person comitting the wrong but dont put it in all the class ,have time and read about other faiths and see if people are folowing the religion or are they doing what they doing for personal and material gains.If i saw a sikh fighting in the streets or hitting someone i wouldnt judge it that all sikh s are like that no i would say that individual is wrongh, if i saw a muslim drinking i would form a view that all muslims are alcoholics but i would say that individual is wrong........many muslims have took active part in sikhism, maybe the jammat islami is wrong but that is a political party, one party in India doesnt form public opinion it is just one opinion did u know that jammaat isalmi has never been in power in pakistan ......i laugh at u and say brother tenu kee patha..what do u know u seem to me a no different from the mughals...if u had power today u will massacre the muslims what makes u any better if the Guru Gobind Jee can forgive then what authority do u hold ,who are u to make decisions have u become God or have u been sent by God to judge......I STRESS READ YOUR RELIGION...then write, u dont even know anything about history,what mughals were,what a muslim is, remember that the sufis of Bagdada that Guru Nanak met and discussedc with were muslims...i say shame on u learn to be a sikh first and then condem others u are like the fundamentlists of any religion but thats not what sikhism teaches..........keep your views to your self be somebody and then come ......as for whay u were surprised that not one person got up in the Lahore meeting...ill answer that ...they had there heads screwed on not like u....they knew what was happening.....remember sikhism is sikhism dont compare to hinduism or any other faith, we are independent people...that was complete bullshit when u compraed it with hinduism if that was the case then why was sikhism created if it had all these similarities then why was sikhism created, why dont u become a hindu as u are so attached to them....brother i think u are one disguising yourself as sikh to promote your hatred against muslims...........but one thing u are not a sikh for sure with them evil views and hatred....we are in a day and age to learn about each other and live in harmony and u are doing exactly what the mughals did and the innocent hindu/muslims/sikhs have suffer foriegn rule peole like u did the same u state and let the British rule us for 100 years, we need to unite learn our differences get together and a day will come when people will respect each other.
Thank u.

to true sikh please also remember 1984.all sikhs should unite and not fight amongst ourselves.only then can we be taken seriously.drink is a curse that should be removed from our ranks.the chief granthi should address that issue instead of debatind if we should sit on a chair or on the floor.parents have been badly lacking in their duty trying to be modern they have sold out all values.we need to find them again.

Dear Balwinder

I am very impressed by what you have written on the Sikh hindu and mulsims. Keep it up!

Dear Swarn Bhains

I have been looking for someone who writes and reads sufi poetry because I am very interested in it too. Do you have any published material on it? Can I buy your book somewhere or would you be able to send me one? I would like to pay for it.
I hope I have not inconvenienced you much. Please can you contact me at jaaneman- at - singnet.com.sg I'll be most grateful to you and thank you.

by Balwinder Singh

The True Enemies of Sikhism - Part 1
On June 25, 1999, the Sikh religion was subjected to an
incredibly cruel and insulting joke, when members of
Pakistan's Jamaat-e-Islami, addressed
a vast gathering of Sikhs in a hotel in Lahore. "Do not
consider yourselves alone in the fight for freedom. All the
Muslims of the world
are with you." thundered Maulana Aslam Sheikh. "Keep
Khalistan alive"!thundered the Muslims, as the bewildered
young Sikhs from UK, US and
Canada looked on. It was a "Sang Sabha" organized by the
Jamaat-E-Islami,Dal Khalsa, Babar Khalsa and International
Sikh Youth Federation to revive
the "Khalistan" movement for a state independent of India.
Urdu Poets spouted "now Jamaat-e-Islami and Sikhs have
become one." even as former ISI chief Hamid Gul wrote
articles saying "Now is the time the Kashmiri Mujahideen
established contacts with Khalistanis". The young Sikhs of
that audience who have been reared and raised in lands
thousands of miles away from Punjab, listened in
uninterrupted rapture to the obscene distortion of truth.
For decades their impressionable minds
had been poisoned with anti-India venom, their brains had
been stuffed with anti-Hindu poison, their heritage and
family history had been
distorted and twisted to an unrecognizable extent. They did
not know their own identity, how could these youths know
what was the truth about their own religion and culture. For
if there had been a single true Sikh in that audience, he
would have screamed in protest at the insult that was taking
place; a violation of the honor and heritage of every Sikh
took place that day in the dark confines of a hotel in
Lahore. If even one Sikh among those hundreds had known of
the centuries of hatred, oppression, genocide and rapine
that these very same Muslims, who said "All the Muslims of
the World are with you" effected on generations of Sikhs
before, he would have cried in shame and rage at the hideous
irony of that statement. He would have reminded the Muslims
of the millions of Sikhs who died by Allah's sword. He
would have remembered the
vision of Guru Tegh Bahadur, Guru Gobind Singh, Guru Arjan
Dev, Bhai Banda Bahadur and hundreds of the world's most
revered Sikh leaders being sawn, burnt, boiled, quartered
and torn alive by the same Muslims. Perhaps if he knew
anything about his own history he would also have remembered
what happened to Sikhs at the hands of Muslims in the very
same city of Lahore about three hundred years ago. In 1716
AD, Zakaria Khan,
the son of the Muslim Governor of Lahore was chopping off
the heads of thousands of Sikhs and loading them onto carts
to carry them as a GIFT to
the Muslim emperor of Delhi. The "gift" consisted of SEVEN
HUNDRED CARTLOADS carrying the beheaded heads of Sikhs,
along with thousands of prisoners in chains including Bhai
Banda Bahadur. The soldiers at the front of the procession
carried the heads of beheaded Sikh warriors impaled on
wooden pikes. As the procession of death reached Delhi,
Farukhshiyar ordered his Minister Mohammed Amin Khan to
prepare a fitting celebration in reception of the gift. On
the 29th of February, 1716, the Muslims of Delhi lined the
streets in full force in anticipatory delight of the
fabulous show that was going to unfold. The crowd cheered as
the front guard walked up with 2,000 soldiers each holding a
Sikh warrior's head impaled on his gaily decorated upright
spear. The heads of the murdered Sikhs were stuffed with
straw, and stuck on Bamboo spears, their long hair streaming
in the wind like a veil, and along with them to show that
every living thing in
Gurdaspur had perished, a dead cat on a pole.
[Image]
The Great Sikh Warrior
Bhai Banda Bahadur

Immediately following this was Bhai Banda Bahadur's
elephant. Banda Bahadur bruised and bleeding sat in an iron
cage. He was bedecked out of mockery with a gold-laced red
turban and a blinding crimson robe of brocade draped on his
tattered body. The heavy robe of brocade was
decorated with pomegranates. Behind him stood a mail-clad
officer with a drawn sword. After him came thousands of Sikh
prisoners strapped in pairs
to camels' backs without saddles. Every one of their faces
had been colored black by soot and pointed sheepskin or
paper caps were dangling
their heads in mockery. Each of them had one hand pinned to
his neck, between two pieces of wood. The rear flank
followed with the Muslim
Commanders, Mohammed Amin Khan, his son Kamar-ud-Din Khan,
and his son-in-law Zakaria Khan.
Even amidst this grotesque celebration of inhumanity, the
Sikhs faced the pain and humiliation with heads held erect
and proud. Not a single Sikh's face showed the slightest
sign of agony or defeat. In the words of Islamic historian
Mohammed Harisi, author of the Ibratnama, who saw the
spectacle with his own eyes, "The crowds were pressing
forward to get a better view. The road to the palace, was
lined with troops and filled with exultant crowds, who
jostled forward to have a chance at mocking the Sikhs. They
spat on the prisoners and Banda Bahadur and laughed at their
grotesque appearance. The Muslims shook their heads and
poked and prodded the Sikhs as they passed. "HU! HU! infidel
dog worshippers your day has come. Truly, retribution
follows on transgression, as wheat springs from wheat, and
barley from barley!! " Such were the cries that arose from
the pious followers of the Quran. Yet their triumph was
incomplete. For the Sikh warriors took all the insults with
a smile. In a surreal scene, the warriors displayed not a
single sign of fear or shame, they rode on, calm,
cheerful, singing songs of their beloved Gurus. They were
happy to die the death of martyrs. "Kill me first, O
Deliverer" was the cry on every
Sikh's lips as they reached the execution platform.
[Image]
Sikh warriors were beheaded and their heads impaled on
poles. It took SEVEN days to behead and murder all the Sikh
prisoners. The
corpses were loaded on wagons and taken out of town to be
thrown to the vultures. Their severed heads were hung up on
trees and on stakes near the
town square as celebratory symbols decorated with ribbons
and bright banners.
For three months Banda Bahadur and his men were tortured to
reveal where they had hidden the treasures which funded the
Sikh resistance. Not one of them uttered a word of betrayal.
It was on Sunday, 9th June, 1716 almost exactly 283 years
ago from the day that Jamaat-E-Islaami made the obscene
statement in Lahore, that Banda's cage was again hoisted on
top of an elephant, and he was dressed in mock attire of an
emperor, with a
colourful red pointed turban on his head. His 4 year old son
Ajay Singh was placed on his lap. Twenty Sardars marched
behind the elephant as the
procession passed through the streets of Delhi, and headed
for the Kutub-ud-din mausoleum of Bahadur Shah, near Kutab
Minar. On reaching that graveyard, the captives were again
offered a final
ultimatum: conversion to Islam or death. None of them
hesitated even a second to choose Death. Each one of the
Sikh Sardars was subjected to
incredible tortures before being executed. Their heads were
then impaled on spears and arranged in a circle around Banda
who was now squatting on
the ground. As thousands of spectators watched, a short
sword was thrust into Banda Bahadur's hands and he was
ordered to kill his own son Ajay
Singh. As the king of warriors sat unperturbed, the
executioner moved forward and plunged his sword into the
little child slashing him into two.
Then pieces of flesh were cut from his son's bloodied corpse
and thrown in Banda's face. The dead child's liver was torn
out of his stomach along with other entrails and stuffed
into Banda Bahadur's mouth. The father sat still as a stone,
not a flicker of emotion crossing his face to betray any
trace of horror. Mohammed Amin Khan then seized Banda by
the hair and barked: "From your manner so far you appear to
be a man of virtue, who believes in God, and in doing good
deeds. You are also very intelligent. Can you tell me why
you are having to suffer all this here ?"
Banda's reply was, "When the tyrants oppress their subjects
to the limit, then God sends men like me on this earth to
mete out punishment to them. But being human, we sometimes
overstep the laws of justice, and for that we are made to
pay whilst we are still here. God is not being unjust to me
in any way." At this the infuriated Mohammed Khan gestured
to the executioner to step forward. The executioner grabbed
Banda Bahadur's head in his rough callused hands and with a
bloodcurdling shudder thrust the tip of his razor sharp
dagger into Banda's right eye, twisting and turning into the
socket as he slashed the optical nerves and gouged out the
eyeball. The second eye met the same fate. Throughout the
torturous
moments of unimaginable agony, Banda Bahadur sat motionless
like a rock. His spirit had taken him beyond the physical
barriers into the realm where
one can feel no pain. The Muslims cheered in their bloodlust
as the executioner slashed off
Banda's left foot, then both of his arms. Then a pair of
red-hot pincers were brought and chunks of Banda's flesh
were torn off his frame. But
Banda Bahadur did not budge. In the final moment before
attaining Samadhi, the glorious warrior smiled in a final
mocking gesture at his torturers. Trembling with fear at the
surreal detachment of the man, the Muslims slashed at his
body with their swords, mincing it into thousands of little
pieces as if afraid that even the severed pieces of blood
soaked flesh would arise any minute and fight back. Every
detail of the preceding event can be found in the accounts
of
writers such as Khafi Khan, Mohammed Harisi, Thornton,
Elphinstone, Daneshwar and others.

Was there not even one Sikh who remembered the significance
of this very June in Lahore as the Jamaat-E-Islaami insulted
the memory of Banda
Bahadur and thousands of Sikhs? Was there not even one who
shuddered at the insult to the memory of his ancestors when
the Jamaat-E-Islami mouthed such hideous lies? The Muslims
of Pakistan want to fool the Sikh into denying his very
identity. They want Sikhs to forget thousands of past
incidents like the Murder of Bhai Banda Bahadur. They want
Sikhs to forget that their very lives are tied to the soil
of India and to the eternal values of Hinduism.
It is the Sikhs who are the true Kshatriyas; the warriors
who stake their very lives to protect DHARMA. That is why
the color of Punjab is Kesari.
Sikhs cannot and will not forget the memories of horror
which were etched onto their souls by the very same Muslims.
>From Abdali to Akbar, from
Aurangzeb to Jinnah, the story has always been the same. The
ultimate mantle of bloodletting and genocide of Sikhs rests
squarely on the
followers of that most cruel and intolerant of creeds;
Islam. It was for the purpose of fighting this same creed
that the very concept of Sikhism was born. The sword of the
Khalsa was formed to rid the world of the cancer of
intolerance and oppression. A holy oath was taken to rid
India of the oppressors, it was for this very reasons that
the five symbols or Kakkars of Sikhi - Kesh, Kara, Kanga,
Kirpan, Kacchera were created. Each one of these symbols
represents an ideal of resistance against the Muslim
conquerors and reinforces Hinduism as the source of Sikhism.
1. Kesh - the tradition of Kesh meaning the long hair which
is not cut. The Sikh follows this tradition of Hindu
warriors who vowed never to
cut their hair until the Muslim aggressors were thrown out
of India. Their hair is the symbol of the vow which is never
forgotten. In Hinduism the
cutting off of hair represents fruition of a duty or task.
For the Sikhs this task is never finished as they are
forever the protectors of the
eternal Dharma of India, therefore the hair is never cut.
2. Kanga - the tradition of the Kanga meaning the
wooden/ivory comb is the symbol of constancy and alertness,
as it reminds the Sikh never to be complacent. It means that
Sikhs must nurture and constantly nourish the fire of
warrior spirit that burns within them, just as they must
always keep their long hair combed in order for it to be
clean and manageable.
3. Kara - the tradition of the Kara meaning the metal
bracelet, symbolizes immovable determination. The courage
and detachment of Banda
Bahadur and millions of Sikh warriors was rekindled whenever
they looked at their Karas and were reminded of the
willpower and strength inherent in their tradition. The
bracelet is also an indicator of the Hindu concept of Jiva
and Atman, where the bracelet represents the material form
of the Soul and the metal represents the commonality of the
spiritual essence of
all living beings, the Atman.
4. Kirpan - the tradition of Kirpan meaning the sword,
symbolizes the defense of the oppressed. It is the
representation of the fierce ideals of a Kshatriya race
which has pledged its life to protecting Dharma and
defending the land of its forefathers from foreign invaders
who threaten its culture. It also reminds the Sikh warrior
of the Hindu concept of the fleeting temporary nature of
life, and focuses attention on the immortal glory of the
Self or Brahman who lies beyond the fragile nature of this
life.
5. Kachha - the tradition of Kachha meaning the short
minimal clothing, symbolizes the highest Hindu concept of
renunciation. The Sikh
is a Kshatriya whose life is pledged to the fight against
injustice, therefore renunciation is a key element as it
makes the warrior detached
from the material aspects of life and focuses his attention
on to his Dharma or duty.

It is these symbols of their origins that make Sikhs the
proudest, dignified patriots of India. It was the Sikh
Gurus who preached the fact
that Ram is everywhere, it was they who lovingly gave Ram
the name "Wahe Guru".
The Sikh has not forgotten the words of Guru Tegh Bahadur
who was dragged to the court of Aurangzeb and forced to bow
at the Muslim emperor's feet.
It was then that the valiant Guru said in a message that has
echoed down to every Sikh warrior through the centuries:
"As a Sikh I must protect the Dharma. If you can succeed in
converting this Tegh Bahadur, then believe me, every Hindu
child of this country will
accept Islam. But you will fail. Because God's Justice
ensures that every community will have the right and the
freedom to practice its religion." It was at these words
that his disciples Bhai Mati Das was sawn alive and
Bhai Sati Das wrapped in cotton to be burnt alive even as
the Quranic verses were read aloud. It was at these eternal
words that Guru Tegh
Bahadur was beheaded alive.
It is this identity that the Muslims of Pakistan want Sikhs
to forget. This article has been written in dedication to
that living, breathing
heritage of Sikhism. Perhaps the Muslims of Pakistan do not
realise that for a Sikh, India is the cradle of his
identity. It was for the soil of
India and the values and ideals of the eternal Sanatan
Dharma that so many Sikhs gloriously martyred themselves.
There may not have been a single true Sikh to protest the
insult to his heritage on that day in Lahore, but
there are countless proud ones who know the true meaning of
Sikhi and will not fall for such lies.
Next week I will describe the details of how the Muslims
have always "supported" the Sikhs by describing the history
of genocide which was
perpetrated on the Sikhs by them during the Mughal reign,
during Independence, during the horror of Partition and even
today as Gurudwaras
are being taken apart brick by brick in Pakistan.

Balwinder Singh

My Brother or Sister who wrote on March 17 as Anonymous.

You said correct that the Christians believe Jesus as Son of God, but you got it wrong in saying that Muslims call Mohammed Sahib Son of God.Mohammed (pbuh) is not regarded as son of God but prophet of God, as we also regard Jesus (Eesaa pbuh) as prophet of God.

This was just a correction.

Regards

Muslim Brother

Another Sufi Poem by Baba Bhulleh Shah, describing the effect it has on people when somebody is just in love with God, Bhullah says,
Aashiq hoyah Rab da te hoi Malamat laakh
Kafir kafir akhdey tu aho aho aakh.

Ut Bhulleya chal uthe Chaliye jithey sarey howan aney
Na koi sadi zaat pechaney na koi sano maney

i m a sikh.i write sufi poetry.my view about sikhism and sufi ism,is that they both are same with a little bit of difference. teachings of both are same.both teach that you can achieve godliness or become God with the help of a guru,nothing else is needed.there is a bit of difference for publick viewing between the two schools of thought.in sikhism the gurbani is very passive and in sufi ism some times the language becomes local and even rough,which means it is by ordinary people and it is for every ordinary person.sufis some times include lovers like heer ranjha ,sassi punu,and sohni mahiwal in there poetry which sikhism doesnot allow.people those who understand the religon they know that those lovers also were saints not majazi lovers.that is why sufis include them in their poetry.selfless love is the only way to godliness ,which they demonstrate very well.

Interesting! what do you know about Suf in Islam and the message of the Sufi writers (Sheikh Farid or Baba Kabir) in the Gurbani?

Rate ishak khudai rang didar ke...

Blessings!

I think what you wrote is right, the people who don't understand they took over the religion in punjab, forgiveness is the most important thing what Rabb and sufism teach. Thats What we punjabi dont seem to have. Just being macho, who impose upon us, we do things, what other people in India and Pakistan do not want do, they end up using us.

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Mr. Raj has written correctly that people donot know about sikhism. One view is that Guru Nanak became guru when he heard one slok of Bhagat Kabir Ji. How foolish. Guru Nanak was born Guru. Bhai Gurdas Ji writes about guru nanak like this

Aap Narain Kaladhar Jag mein parvario

Means god himself came to earth. In other religions Christians call Jesus as Son of God - Not God. Muslims says Mohmad Sahib as Son of God - Not God and keep Hinduism a side becuase i donot know how many gods are there as per their faith.

You all need full knowledge because half the knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge

Anonymous
If Guru was born as Guru than you were born as blind follower. You are an ignorant and convinced so it is useless to discuss with people like you.

Nanak was influenced by verses of Kabir from childhood and he was just a normal kid. His spiritual orientation and quest started when he was a young man.

Just becuase of blind followers like you Sikhs are fighting among themselves....always.
B Singh

I though that this site was supposed to tell about the history of Sikhism and what it is about. what I want to know is why whoever wrote the original message had to post his obviously biased and stereotypically views about the Sikhs and the religion. Frankly, I don't thnink you know anything about the religion. And what the heck do you mean the the Khals Panth was "probably an attempt to keep the original faith intact." Obviosly you don't agree with alot of what Sikhism teaches an the concept of the Khalsa Panth, otherwise you wouldn't be so doubtful. If you don't beleive all it teaches that's fine..but don't try to change and refine it to fit your needs and impose your ignorant views on others. Either you acept all of it and what the gurus taught or you don't. And what is this mumbo jumbo about Sikhs bringing hate and complexes into the religion. If you have political views about what Sikh leaders are doing then I suggest you post them somewhere else, but don't post them on a site that claims to tell of the Sikh religion. It is because of people like you that we cannot have unity in our community.

Just wanted to know if anyone out there teaches about Sikhism and the Punjabi culture at the elementary school level? We were interested in establishing an after-school program for our youngsters. Any help would be appreciated. Please list any books, web sites, other resources that may help us. Thank you.

Hello K. Shergill,

I am not sure where you live. But, most of the Gurdwaras in California have Punjabi Sunday schools. They teach Punjabi and Sikhism. You might wanna check a local Gurdwara.

Take care

Why are all of you hating each other. why can't we just all be united and for once be in peace. what nonsence am i hearing from which i think are adults. I am only 14,however i know more about love, peace,and unity than i think you people will ever learn in an entire lifetime. have you not already seen enough hatred and cruelty.If you are so into what God said then tell me,did God ever tell us to hate? Guru Nanak stated to love each other no matter what creed, caste, race, or religion we may come from. "nothing really matters, love is all we need."~MADONNA. Just remember this it is not wrong to have a inter racial marriage, or to experiance life to the very fullest. just do not discriminate. Love see no color.In the end it all comes down to the way we loved each other.

Why are all of you hating each other. why can't we just all be united and for once be in peace. what nonsence am i hearing from which i think are adults. I am only 14,however i know more about love, peace,and unity than i think you people will ever learn in an entire lifetime. have you not already seen enough hatred and cruelty.If you are so into what God said then tell me,did God ever tell us to hate? Guru Nanak stated to love each other no matter what creed, caste, race, or religion we may come from. "nothing really matters, love is all we need."~MADONNA. Just remember this it is not wrong to have a inter racial marriage, or to experiance life to the very fullest. just do not discriminate. Love see no color.In the end it all comes down to the way we loved each other.

Sufism_
The road to peace and tolerance
Everybody read baba Bhulle Shah writings his poetic writings ull know how we can have religous tolerance and work hand in hand to achieve the same goals.
Pehle More te Gurdawara,Dhuje more te Takurdwara, tejey more te masjid mandir me kerey under jawa.
Seeti mar sajna me bhul gayee more te akey.
Bhulle Shah

awaal alla noor o paya, kudrat de sab bande.
Ek noor te sab jag upjaya, kaun bhale ko mande.

My dear friends ,thankyou very much for your valuable comments and I think the above lines very truly depicts the kind of message Guru Nanak wanted to spresd around the world. Unfortunately we have separated ourselves from the basics teachings of any sacred religion of this world. please be primitive, be basic and be simple to understand the true messsage of messengers like Him.
Thankyou very much,

S.S. Goraya, M.D.