Taj..your so right about the Bhugrie thing..(of course they make a man sexier) but not neccesarly pure. I know a few Sikh's with Bhug's and they drink and drug a BIG discracement to Sikhism..I've asked them why even bother going through all that..ya know wearing the Bhug and everything..one just likes the attention and it gives him a reason to get in fights (I think).. The other wears it because his parents make him.. I get real angry with them..Its not right,,I stopped eating beef, stoped shaving my legs cutting my hair.. Now I can't wear shorts or shirts (even to work) Or people will make fun of me cuz I dont shave..

Arjun, it make take awhile but cooljat is very hostile and rude in general, I would suggest saving your finger energy(typing) on something more useful.


Queston to all Sikh's..(Cooljat got an anwser for me)
Does anyone know why we wear Kara's?..The true reason.

Jag
100% respect mate!!
I live in west London.This was the broadway in southall.I know of these Uni islamic promoters,but luckily during my time there,there was no trouble,thank God!!Everyone just ignored 'em and got on fine.
The only intention is to get in one's face,know what I mean.

NP
Im not a monna.
You have no right saying monne are less Sikh,traitors or whatever you care to name.There are literally plenty of Sikhs who wear turbans but are a shame to the community and its' future because of the lifestyle that everyone finds themselves lost in...drink,drugs,materialism,fighting etc.Wearing a pugh doesnt guarantee one to be spiritually minded or naturally perfect.Its what is inside that counts or did you forget?
There are plenty of divisions among Sikhs and we dont need another one.You seem to think only amrit baptism en masse is the right way and the Gurdwara Committees are getting carried away here.
All our people are sonne sunakhe gabroo des Punjab de!!!!
And I prefer aloo walle pronte,dhehi,rassmalai,gajar halwa,gobi,and thathee chaa,awight!!!!!
Enjoy your meal,lads!!!

COOLJAT,
you just made the biggest mistake by calling me a Hindu fundamentalist. I am the most sacrilegous Hindu you will ever meet. I am open to all religions, and in spite of the obvious fact that I do have a certain animosity towards pakis, the ones who are our counterparts, the punjabis. (To soothe the irrate Ridwan.) I do believe that there is a obvious truth to all religions. I'm not against Islam, but a select few muslims, the ones Taj mentioned earlier.

And I am totally against the caste system, but only discrimination and the ostracizing. I do believe that you should get married to a person of your own caste.

Don't bash my religion!!!!

I don't go around starting a parade of purity about my religion like you because I know that there are flaws. The caste system is testament to that. But the flaws are only the way that certain things are done. Our ancestors (the Aryans) did it to keep races apart. Personally I think that that was the only reason for the caste system.

If you're so against the caste system, COOLJAT, then what's up with the name? Its obvious that you're JATTI, and you're proud of it.

I don't go around saying I'm a Rajput Kshatriya Hindu like you do about your caste. But I am. This is a fact that I am only mentioning. I don't flaunt it around as a friggin certificate to let me in the fukin Brahmin's cookie jar.

You're so proud to be a JATTI; its evident that you do follow the caste system. Now who's the hypocrite now?

And stop writing in capitals! ITs so rude!

God Taj,
Why would the muslims have the gall to do that at a predominatly Sikh neighborhood? Why don't the police down this custom, since here in America, obsenities done to minors, especially to go for young underage teenage girls is grossly unconstitutional and illegal. The Sikhs should voice their securities and their opinion to a certain type of town commitee.

Arjun

Are you saying Sikhism is not reconized as a reliigons??..Then why are there Sikh temples?

NP, I agree with you. Many Sikh lifes were taken, for the Independance of India. But I think what Taj and Sarb were trying to say is what happened afterwards -we were cheated on and promises not kept. Its very difficult to celebrate the Independence of a country that we had thought of as our own then, where now Sikhism is not even recognised as a religion.

NP - yes im glad we're eating punjabi food... but Im not so keen on saag, I prefer cholay and patooray! and then kheer :-)

No haircut can tell me about Sikhism when they are still suffering from the 300 year rule of the chita oppressor - trying to look like them. We suffered at the hand of the muslims who told us to do it but know the haircuts are doing it themselves without any force - just to be accepted. Sikh warriors will always be feared where ever they go - we are a force to be reckoned with. Haircuts are just a dilution of the true faith and we see them raoming around every day. Monaa banday should s the f up - grow your hair first, practice the 5 pillars of sikhism and then tell me about it.

Nahang Phauj

Firstly independence was from the chitay - not any other religion understand Taj sarb and cooljat. If we didn't get it, you would be eating curry and chips and having custard and sponge pudding by now - know what i mean. So coming from a turbaned sikh who is venomantly proud of his punjabi sikh heritage I believe that to have gained freedom from the chitay oppressors was a great thing and people like Udham singh and Baghat Singh didn't die in vain understand. After Independence is a different matter - we sikhs are still paying for what happened. so don't tell me about Independence was bad because I'm gald I'm eating saag and mukhi de roti and having savia for after...and I have the 5K's.

saadi tharti sadi jaan.

Nahang Phauj

Taj,
Sorry that was meant to be where in London are you from?

Taj, Where in the UK are you from? These islamic stalls are a common place in London. They have them out near Universities targeting the gullable and naive students. There was once an incident, when I was up in East London, on Green Street, this islamic stall was set up and as I walked passed, he started asking me questions about sikhism and everything I said he made it sound as if Islam was a better choice. I think one with little knowledge of their religion would have easliy been manipulated. This isn't just one case there are many cases... at my Uni they had to ban the Islamic society because they were promoting fundementelists.

Ridwan, Sikhism is not a converting religion, it never was or has been. Thats why sikhs don't get baptised stright after birth. Also Sikhs have never forced anyone to follow their religion or shoved it down anyones throat, we have followers out of their will not by converting! And about the books you are talking about, yes there are books on every religion teaching why their path is right, but the difference is sikhs don't set up stalls promoting them and and approaching people to read them, you read them out of your own will!

I cant resist this,sorry if I offend,but here goes....the other day there were 5 stalls set up by extreme Islamic organization,Khilafah on the local high street,the one which printed the letter calling on muslims to target sikh girls for marriage and conversion.A national conference is being hosted in the north of England,and they were promoting it in a overwhelmingly predominant Sikh area!!!!The chauvinist men standing by with these cheeky,insulting grins across their faces knowing their crap is bound to piss the locals off into a frenzy.
And would you believe it,on the other side an old indian woman had her own stall saying 'Jesus is alive'.And then in one of the busy roads off the side a Carribean Christian group was singing hymns at the top of their voices.This was one bizarre Saturday.

So that is what is meant by 'shoving one's religion in another's face'.I dont see any reduction whatsoever in the mistrust between people.Talk about religion being personal.

RIDWAN

Right now I can only think of two instances when Sikhs were known to be missionaries;when one of the Gurus put together sikhs to spread the word across Punjab,among them a famous woman,(I will get the name),Guru Gobind Singh also administered amrit baptism to thousands;and Yogi Bhajan Singh Khalsa and the 3HO,Healthy,Happy and Holy Organization.I believe he spread sikhi among a few thousand white Americans.Im not sure if they do missionaries,like going from door to door.
Maybe someone from US can verify that.

And I mean that all religions believe in God,and spiritual union with the Almighty,hence 'all paths lead to God'.

And for the last question,Khalistan is the result of both India and Punjabi nationalists,the former giving the latter the momentum and cause for it.

Ridwan,you seem to contradict yourself;youre justifying Bluestar and excusing it as a 'better safe than sorry' event,yet in your other posts you go on that it was disgraceful,India's fault,Sikhs should never forget or dont forget about what Hindus done to you,and so on.Your exercises are getting tiresome,and I have question to ask of you;why such intense interest in khalistan?
There is you on the one hand saying,this is what the hindus done to sikhs,dont forget and dont blame Pakistan,its not the muslims fault;and then Arjun,saying vice versa.I think both of you want some kind of assurance or union with sikhs.
Either way this is really silly.

Taj,

By Missionary, i do mean convert. Ive come across books teaching the Sikh faith and why it is right. To say all paths lead to god is insulting some 95%of the worlds religions. Youre view is youre own, so how does one way that allpaths lead to god, which is just verifying his way of thinking? to say that is to say your way of thinking is right.

I doubt Hinduism is to blame for Indias problems, and I dont think India should be blamed for Punjabsproblems. Remember, Blue Star was to clean out the temple from guns. There were guns in there, India didnt know how much, that is why such a massive operation was necessary. Underestimation would have meant sure death. As for the Khalistan movement, is it right to say India started it? Or was it a band of Punjabis seeking a seperate identity for faith and culture?

Sarb and Cooljat

Couldnt agree more.August 15th is a shameful date in Indian history,esp.for Sikhs at the hands of Pakistan and India.What have we been able to look forward to with great happiness in the general scheme of things?This reminds me of when three years ago where I live someone sprayed '50 years of Sikh bloodshed' in big black letters on a wall;it was visual enough for anyone to see.Someone had threatened to disturb Pakistani celebrations in our area,and so the police advised all sections of the community to stay away,in case of incitements.
What hurt even more was a Singh playing dhol live on TV for a band called Legacy during Pakistani celebrations.

But anyway have yourselves a good day.

lalo lagtha saray janai ithai margayo a.


HELLOOOOOOO KOI JEENDA HAI??????????

i deffinitly agree with Cooljat bout the langer situation.

ppl

what don't u understand,

there are so different cultures.

we are one we all have feet, hands, and other PARTS.

god created us this way, n we should stay this way.

ARJUN is a HINDU NATIONALIST

He beleives in CASTES

India is currently being run by the BRAHMIN ELITE
Who wont even let a lowcaste look at there FOOD,
otherwise its polluted

EXPLAINS INDIAS poverty today

THIS is WHAT HINDUISM is all about

THATS why they are trying to eradicate SIKHISM from
INDIA, becuause it says the exact OPPOSITE

WE are a RELIGION who are told all HUMANS are one
(thats why we have the LANGAR)

FOOD may be prepared by any colour or creed and only then we will realise we are all of 1 race - THE HUMAN
RACE

I am very sorry that HINDUISM has now gone out of DATE
and truly beleive the whole world does not agree with
your PRINCIPLES

August 15th, should be seen as a BLACK day for the Sikhs. Tens of thousands of Sikhs, Muslims, and Hindus died in Punjab due to the mass up rooting of the Punjabi people based on religion. The Sikhs were given false promises by the likes of Nehru and Gandhi and tricked into joining India. We Sikhs have nothing to celebrate on the 15th of August.

WHERE HAS EVERYONE GONE? AM I ONLY ONE THE GANG WHO'S HERE?

peace to all my sikh brothers and sisters on india's independence day - remember shaheed udham singh + shaheed baghat singh - the two great sikh warriors who kept up the Nahung traditions - born from the soil of Punjab - sadi tharti sadi jaan.

Raaj kareaga khalsa akee raayhae naa koee.

Nahang phauj.

Her name is still Anuradha Sanghani, God willing

Actually, Taj ji, the practice is quite common in London, and it is even happening in the USA. I live in Houston, and it happened to a classmate of mine; her name was Anuradha Sanghani.

Arjun
Where did you hear about Muslims posing as Sikhs?It sounds like hearsay to me.

Ridwan
Could you please explain how Sikhism is a 'missionary' faith 'seeking to convert others'?

My opinion is that no one,Christian,Muslim,Sikh,Hindu,Jew etc. should be out so to speak to convert and educate others;that would be like promoting your own version of the truth.People should just be left alone.I get annoyed when Jehovah's Witness and Christians come to all Asian neighbourhoods like mine just to tell us their 'truth'.Dont we have enough religion as it is?
We are in the information age of TV,Internet,there are libraries etc.So if one is curious or interested,they can take it up.
But I hate this shoving 'my religion' in ordinary people's faces.

I am impressed and in awe of some people on punjabi.net who have researched and know of what other faiths have to say,yet remain Sikhs.This is a good step towards communal harmony....'all roads lead to one destination'.God is just God,and these religions all have good intentions.I will take this
up when I have the time.
But I disapprove of organised religion;one day,down Oxford Street,central London,me and my buddies came across Hari Krishnas,Christians,Jehovahs Witness and Muslims with their stalls and approach tactics simultaneously.
These people and their intentions are bound to cause trouble,so they ought to stay away.

And as for it being OK for a Sikh or anyone to convert to Islam for love marriage purposes,doesnt the Quran advise against dating and relationships?
And what is so depressing about Sikhism anyway?
Of course it is their choice if it comes naturally.

Take care.

Oye Jatti :-)

Nahi ji, main te California vich ha!! Ho sak da hai koi hor sarb hai tohadai shayar vich.

arjun,

i would also dislike it if a muslim dressed and acted as a Sikh just to convert. From what you say, it sounds like the guys do it, so the girl will just give them a chance. I think its more for love than anything else. Its kinda what happens in Indian movies all the time. If he just wanted to marry her to convrt her, that would be wrong, but do the men youve seen immediately divorce the women? You say here that you dont hate all Muslims, but from your previous posts, itd seem otherwise.

thanx for the next comment!

You sound very educated, Ridwan.

Ridwan,
If any Sikh or Hindu girl wants to become Muslim, then what can I say about it? They have the free choice to do so. What I was mentioning was about the subversive way that they are being manipulated by Muslim men into thinking that they are Sikh men, just so they can date with them and eventually convert the girls. I know all Muslims aren't bad, but the things these people are doing are very immoral and wrong. I know that this isn't the norm with all Muslims, but these are some of the things going on in Houston. Its sure to create bad feelings among people. And we already have such bad feelings against each other.

Arjun,

ABout your comments on how Iranis and Punjabis claim aryan descent, heres the answers ive been hearing:

There were originally 3 waves of Aryan invasions. The first was a rather small one, and the invaded north of the subcontinent and settled in the Valleys from Kashmir to Afghanistan, they are the Dardics. The second wave was the biggest wave and swept north Indian and South Pakistan and Punjab, those were the Indo-Aryans. The third was a more solid, but less powerful invasion and those people took the land from North Ossetia in Russia, to Kurdistan, Iran, Afghanistan, and Western pakistan,Tajikstan, and some valleys in Central Asia. Those were the Iranians. The Balochis are the result of Indo-Aryan, and Iranian breeding, and pashtun are the result of Iranians mixing with Dards. The Brahvi are a mix of Iranian and Dravadrians. As for the Scythians, ive heard they came from Russia.

Second about your comments on Muslims targetting Sikhs and Hindus. Ive seen many Hindus convert at will to Islam, and ive seen 2 Muslim girls become Sikhs. Obviously there is good in both relgions, and since both are missionary religions, they both seek conversions. The search isnt limited to a specified group though, its for all. Most conversions take place for marriage. now are you trying to say that girls are so stupid that they need to be programmed to hate Muslims? Let the girls make up their own minds, if they fall in love, let them marry.

Ive seen Muslims in England, and if youve ever been to a Muslim country, youll see the men have grown beards and worn turbans way before the word Sikh was ever spoken. Them wearing a Sikh Patkay is questionable as no Muslim would think of posing as a member of another religion. If your girls cant tell teh difference between a Muslim and a Sikh, they arent Sikhs, so what does it matter if they convert? Sikhs believe there are different paths to god, so why cant you just accept that maybe some girls find Islam as the right path? Youre not a Sikh, so how do you talk of how a few Muslims try to convert Sikhs, but you dont talk of how the RSS Hindus try to deny Sikhs a seperate identity????? Biased views make you seem ridiculous.

saala cooljat kitha gaya

The things in London done to Hindu and Sikh girls is also happening in Houston, Texas, USA and New York. Some of the muslims are being told to go for Sikh and Hindu girls, and after a period of time, initiate them into islam. Already, one Hindu girl named Anuradha Sanghani, eloped with a muslim man and they're off in Mexico somewhere. Some of her relatives even think pakistan.
Hindus and Sikhs alike, we have to educate our girls, I think so that they don't fall into this rat-trap.
I've even heard of some muslims disguising themselves as Sikhs to elope with our girls. They might wear a turban and have a beard and Kara, sometimes. But because most of my Sikh friends have cut their hair and shave regularly and just keep a Kara, this has made the situation even more puzzling, as to who is a Sikh or what. Since these muslims often know Punjabi and are good at talking, this is a real threat.

I have a question for all of you "Khalistanis".

If there is actually a Khalistan made out of Punjab in India, would you actually want to leave your homes in America, Australia, UK, or Canada to be a part of it? Would you leave all of your luxuries and abandon homes that you have already made in other countries? Answer me, honestly.

You are so filled with rhetoric about injustices made against Sikhs by India, and by Hindus in general, that you won't listen to anything else.

I know Sikhs who think otherwise.
The Khalistan issue is so divided, it makes a wedge between brothers. Just drop it.

If the Scythians were turned into low-castes then by Hindu Brahmins, then how could they be the high-castes that they are now? I read elsewhere, that most Scythians who became assimilated into Indo-Aryan culture became "Kshatriyas", "Rajputs", and some even Brahmins. Castes, according to old Indian customs, often pertained to skin color, and the Scythians are light-skinned. I doubt that they were turned into low-castes. I'm very sure that they would rebel.

Arjun

The Aryan theory is under debate right now so I don't know who's right who's wrong. It is believed Scythians migrated to India after the Aryans. The jats of India claim to be the decendents of the Scythians. According to the Hindu caste system jats belong to the Sudra caste. The Rajputs are supposed to be the jats that were giving higher status by the brhamins and elevated to the khastryia caste.

Sunny and XXX know more about this stuff. I'm not much into it so you should ask them to elaborate on this.

Savraj,
Since the Scythics came from Northern Persia, and the prior Aryans did also, does that mean that in India, migrations of the same kind took place, just under names? I have a lot of Persian friends, and they also mentioned that they are Aryans, and they found it interesting that we also claim it.

Savraj,
I noticed a long time ago that you said that the Jatti are about 80% Scythic. And they are high caste Sikhs. Is it possible for me to be made up of Scythic blood? I am a Rajput Kshatriya Hindu, from the warrior, ruler caste. And I'm Punjabi, so is this possible? I was always told by my parents that we are Aryans, not Scythics.

Jatti I am of human race?..And you?..
I am German, Sweedish, and Dutch. My family has been here in the us for many many years~

oye cooljat

tu judgement day di dohaii kyo payi a?
jedo judgement day aoo ga phir dekhy jayii ok.

herake talk te tu judgement day dea gallan kar da a.

etho shut hani hor koi gal.

kidda duhaii payi a.

hey milessa what race r u ???

Taj~ You havn't heard "burn cd's" before?..Its when you down load songs off the internet to a cd, or from cd to cd..THen you never have to go to music stores again. Pretty cool huh.

oye sarb menu lagtha ke ma tenu jandi a

r u in vancouver yaar??????

u ppl are fighting over BS ok like get a life people

Taj

when i said that jatt's stick wit jatt's i mean sikh's stick wit sikh's yaar.

look god is one he is listening to us, he is everywhere around us, inside us. jus do ur prayers n u will find the right way aight.

look i don't mess wit nebody i don't talk shit to nebody unless they talkin shit to me understand.

i jus simply mind my own business. i don't say nething to ne other race. i agree wit kudi we should try to get along.

Hello everyone,

ARJUN
I just want to know,what do you mean 'I burn CD's for others for lunch money and stuff....'?Is that an American thing?

SANDHU
I am compelled to correct you,the US House Committee conducted hearings in 1992 and 1993,because the US government was considering whether to broaden trade links with India over its' human rights record.I think they also discussed the political climate of other states.
1992 and 1993,that's 3+ yrs since the Soviets left Afghanistan after 10 years of war with the Pakistan and American CIA backed Mujahideen;Indira sided with the USSR when she met Brezhnev in 1982,perhaps deliberately to get up the nerves of the Yanks who partied with Pakistan,India's mortal enemy....clever Brahmin ploy!!!!
So to say the US falsified these reports because of the Soviet-India friendship is baseless because the war was long over and so was the Soviets' demise.
And Ive read Sant Bhindranwale only visited Pakistan once,Nankana Sahib,to deliver a sermon;if anyone wishes to correct me,please feel free to do so.
And,during Bluestar it is safe to say Sant Bhindranwale and the Sikhs in the Akal Takht had only sten guns and rifles,not the AK's and grenade launchers theyd have you believe.And they were overpowered in a day.
Why was there discrepancies in the actual amount reported by the Army and the Govt. between the action and the White Paper respectively.Even Mark Tully and Satish Jacob,both pro-Indira in 'Amritsar;Gandhi's last battle',say this.

JATTI
When say you 'Jatts only',are you saying Sikhs?
And why have you been thrown out of school so many times?
Listen,I understood you hate muslims,but swearing and threatening is not going to help this problem,just tell us in normal language what your experiences have been.
I know that fanatics in England test one's patience and many mullahs provoke Sikhs,esp.London,but youre responding in the wrong way.I see these youths and all they think of is the panga which comes into it;I ask myself,is that the only time youre interested in being a Sikh,when a ruckus goes down?I dont like what hateful Muslims do to undermine our community but I wash my hands of this thing,and have always vowed to keep the peace since a teenager,just live like a human to others and keep this hotheadedness out;only when someone crosses the line,you answer with a good argument,but defend if attacked.Religion isnt an issue with the good Muslims and Hindus I encounter.

You are still young and I mean it when I say its a good time to learn about your heritage;you'd be surprised and humbled.
I agree though we should just marry and date our own as it saves us all from breaking tradition and unforeseen consequences;distraught families are being torn apart by this so its only since some have broken this that problems have begun and other things that came,so lets just avoid the bulls***!!!!

Take care.

MELLISSA KAUR

WHATS UP !!

want some brown sugar

arjun and jatti,

you two arent indirect racists, you are full fledged racists. No need to rosy up your bigotry.

Hey Jatti,

I'm also a Sandhu and I can relate more to you than that other Sandhu. Sikhaan nu Sikhaan de hi naal vihaa karna chaida hai.

Punjabi Kuri,

I told agree that the Indian govt. is behind the Air-India bombing. The book "Soft Target" proves it!!

Sarb Singh Sandhu

I honeslty am sorry you have to deal with ignorant goras over there!!..If you came over here I could show you some coolgoras.. I know some white people probably think there better..but hey theres also plenty of Indians who think the same way.. and reading some of these peoples converstions its proof they think that way. Hey all i have to say COOLJATT (like you've been posting all over punjabitalk) Judgement day will come, everyone will have to face Waherguru.

Sunny..thats great that the ones you know are so family orianted and no it's not a sin to be uneducated but it is when you have no repsect for women or for yourself for that matter..Hootn' and hollern' that is soo disrespectful dont' you think?..I never said all mexican are like that..I just have the prejudice in the back of my head thats all. I have a mexican friend, thats one thing I don't do..judge people before I actually get to know what there all about first.

MELLISSA

IF YOU LIVED IN ENGLAND YOU'D MEET THE REAL WHITEBOYS
ME AND MY BROTHERS ALWAYS KICK THERE PINK ASS
ITS ALL ABOUT COLOUR OVER HERE MATE
they'll only fight if its 10 onto 1
THEY'LL ALWAYS LOOK DOWN AT YOU
ALWAYS INTERFERING -
(NO OFFENSE TO whitegirls)

I ALWAYS FIGHT FOR COLOURED PEOPLE
LOOK AT WHAT MUHAMMED ALI THE BOXER SAID

Melissa and Anon, some of my good friends are Mexican, they have much stronger families than do white. So they are uneducated, is that a sin?

First of all Anon..I never said I hated mexicans..Go and read it again. I dont' hate anyone.. Im not going to waste petty emoitions on someone I dislike. What about all the other people here saying they hate all these other people, I was only trying to relate, see thats how I've become the openminded nonjudgemental person that I am. If im pathic for that then fine. I have had many bad encounters with mexican men around my house, so yea thats a pretty damn good reason to feel the way I do.

In one message Melissa is telling that we are all kids of God and should not hate and in the otehr message she proclaims that she hates Mexicans and also gives a reason to justify it. How pathetic.

So do you know any lyerics to that song?? Or you only know the name of it?

sorry, I don't know what a tuckey means

yeah, my dad beat up a mexican guy who was hollering at my sister once.

I think everyone is racist to a point, I dont really care for mexicans..and I have reasoning behind it.. To much hoot and hollerin' when I was younger walkn down the street//How patheic can a human get!

Sorry for the previous message. I practically burn CD's for other people for lunch money or for stuff, I guess. Anyways, everybody who was a critic of my little parody over there, I appreciate it. I did a butcher job of that thing, and I'm happy that you pointed out its flaws. You're right. How can I compete against the real world when I have an antipathy against muslims? I am probably an indirect racist against Muslims. But don't ever expect me to apologize for that.

Arjun~ I dont belive I know this song..Im sorry, maybe if you allibrate more I can help, how did the song go?.. Can you tell me what Tuckey means?..ITs in a song goes something like..???? Jall a ban e tuckey??
Is this tired?

This might not pertain to any thing going on in the message boards. But does anybody know who sang the original "Diary of a Madman"? It would help me a lot at this point. Gorriegirl, I'm looking at your direction.

Exzactly Kudi..we are all gods children. Stop judging eveyone.. I've read how people dont' like other doing it to them..right..So does it make ya' all any better doing the same exzact thing right back?.. Dont' sterotype someone before you even know them.. Get to know them first!!..Then youll have reason to back up why you don't like that specific person.. So much hatred here in Punjabitalk..~

Jatti, an opportunity to marry either a hindu or a muslim girl is not an option... it is lack of options. It doesn't matter anyway cuz dil laye gaye mera kuri patiale dee

hey guys i don't think we should discriminate angainst each other after all when we are praying we are all prayin to one god.


so larna band karo ok

larna sakt manna hai (LOL)

sandhu menu lagtha ke tu margaya ya phir apna computer upar soan gaya.

shetti bhol yaar

oye sandhu

yaar tu bohut chir launda message post karn le.

u takin to long to answer my question.

i am really anxious to c what ur answer is yaar

oye sandhu yaar

mera kol tera le ik swaal a ok
sach much jawab dehee ok

if u had a choice to marry a hindu or paki, would u do it yaar?

if the same question was being asked to me my answer would be no.

oye sandhu

i like every religon i have respect for every religon yaar but i jus don't have respect for one that is it. which is muslim that it.

Jatti, your last comment is cute. I myself, am a firm beleiver in sticking with my own kind. I don't see anything wrong with that. But I do not like it when people try to malign other religions (hinduism) without looking in their own backyards.

Sandhu yaar tu samajna di koshus kar ok

look if ur a jatt u stick wit jatt not hindu n paki n other races like that. if u don't and ur a jatti who is married to a hindu than u are makin ur parents look bad and ur family.

Is it not a caste system, when a jat sikhs wants to stick to their own kind and a no-jat sikh wants to stick to their own kind??? So even we sikhs have a caste system. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with that. Its is the need of the society and not an invention of religion. The moment we say that a jat sikh kuri married a low caste hindu or a jat sikhs married a hindu girl, we are unknowingly introducing a caste system in our day to day lives. So does sikhi tell us to beleive in Caste system?? No.. but we sikhs seem to be caught in the caste system.

The RCMP (canadain police) have arrested those suspected of the bombing and those people are sikhs to your surprise. So far, no solid evidence points to an involvement of Indian Govt in that bombing. And remind you, it is the canadian govt doing the investigation so there is very little room for a partial investigation aimed at covering up any alleged indian invlovment.

Here is my take on the punjab problem and how it evolved and became an international issue:

As in any other state in India, there is poverty and unemployment. Youths are obviously the ones that suffer the most. Punjab youths were no exception. Remeber, in those days, India was engaged with Pakistan in a war that led to the creation of Bangladesh. Although, India acted in self defence as Pakistani army was attacking Indian regions in the east, some pakistanis beleive that India is the one to blame for the separation of Bangladesh from Pakistan. So pakistan is looking for revenge since then. Punjab being close to India border, pakistan targetted punjabi youths as a weapon to destablise India. So they started training our youths to fight a battle for sepration against INdia. There are evidence to support pakistani invlovment in the punjab issue. At the same time, India was a close friend to USSR which was not to the liking of the USA and UK. So USA and UK would use any chance they get to destablise India as they saw India being hostile to US and UK intentions. So they would boldly publish reports of human rights violations in India.. soem of them false rumours nonetheless. That explains that true motives behind US based huma rights agencies.
But now things have changed, USSR is no more and russia is no threat to the US and they see India as a big market, so their stance on the kashmir issue has changed. You may have read a lot about it in recent news. Pakistanis are accusing US of shift in US internationl politics concerning south asia. So my freinds, don't get befooled by super powers like USA or UK as they are capitialist coutnries and they mean business only. They have no regards for an peace and prosperity in south asia.

oye

HEY FOR AL DA PPL WHO R JATTS

ONE TIP

JATTS STICK WIT JATTS OK

LOOK IN MY LIFE MY WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE I HAVE NEVER TALKED TO A PKI NEVER TALKED TO A HINDU. MY TEACHER IS PAKI N I NEVER TALK TO HIM UNLESS I AM ASKED A QUESTION LOOK MY POINT HERE IS JUS STICK WIT UR KIND.
AND I HATE PAKIZ CAUSE THEY KILLED US THE ARE MY ENEMIES I WILL NEVER WEAR CLOTHING MADE IN THERE FKEN GOD DAMN COUNTRY CAUSE THEY JUS PISS ME OFF.

SO PPL JUS STICK WIT UR OWN KIND MEANING; IF UR JATT STICK WIT JATTS, IF UR PAKI STICK WIT PAKI'S

LOOK I AM FUKEN PROUD TO BE A JATT AND ALWAYS WILL BE.

I AINT RACIST I NEVER MESS WIT THEM NEVER TALK TO THEM UNLESS THEY ASK ME SOMETHING I JUS MIND MY OWN BUSINESS. BUT IF ANY PAKI OR HINDU OR WHIT OR NEOTHER RACE DISCRIMINATES ME THAN I WILL FIGHT BACK. I HAVE BEEN KICKED OUTA 5 SCHOOLS BECAUSE I FIGHT WIT MY TEACHERS. MY GYM TACHER TOLD ME TO TAKE MY KARA ( BRACLET) OFF I SAID TO HER KINDLY NO. SHE THAN GRABBED MY ARM AND TOLD ME TO TALK IT OFF THEN I SPIT IN HER FACE N TOLD HER TO •••• OFF I JUS LEFT THE SCHOOL. MY BROTHER THAN WENT TO MY SCHOOL THAN GAVE SHIT TO MY TEACHER,

SO THATS ALL I TELLIN U PPL JUS STICK IT UR KIND THAT IT.

aha... it was Ian McGrew... now I remember

Sandhu, I reccomend that you read the book entitled "Soft Target" by Zuhair Kashmeri and I think Ian Something. In this book they discuss whether or not Sikhs may or may not have been involved in the air India bombing. Moreover, there has not been any conclusive evidence which could incriminate the Sikhs, and to date no one has been found guilty. Furthermore, it could be just as likely that the Indian goverment could have been behind it... they would have had strong motives to do so.
Lastly, I would like to mention that a couple years back I saw on the news that a polish man was seeking sanctuary (i think you call it that) in a church because ppl were after him. The interesting point is that this man claimed that the Russian goverment had offered him money to bomb the Air India plane but he declined the offer... . very interesting... if you don't believe me look it up in the canadian news... you might have to search hard for it though... i tried to find it but i was unsucceful,,, but I did see it on T.V. (it was probaly about 2 yrs ago). The USSR and India were very close has we all know in the 80's... but the latter is pure speculation... just as your allegations against the Sikhs are Sandhu.

We all have to realize that theres good and bad is all people. Evil comes in all colors. I haev a question for who ever can give me some insite on a sitution.
I am planning a trip to India with a cusin of my boyfriends.. I was going to put our tickets on my credit card but I got a call from her saying she can't go. She's 17 and her and her family have only been here 10 months.. She can't go because her 21 yr old brother won't let her. Her mom and dad said it was Ok but now that her brother said no the hole family is?,, I dont' get this??..

ARJUN
What you said about gorre is so right.I know that many of these English gorre who appear racist or prejudice will probably never kill non-Whites.My impression is that the generations here are being raised as pacifists e.g.any type of assault is prosecuted,even physical touching not consented to,
violence is always discouraged and abhorred by the social agencies(schools,colleges,police).....everything is out in the open.
Hell,you have to pay these gorre nowadays to serve their country and die for humane principals.
Capital is everything!!!
Compare this to Sikh history.

You will get ocassional muck-ups,some gorre are racist and remark and even involved in criminal incidents but a lot of these gorre dont have what it takes.This is a 'modern democracy'(in Uni,gorre would always fuss over everything regarding this definition,everything has to be perfect!!!) and in England non-White people are not being killed en masse.There is always channels for justice and the Labour govt. is falling over itself for minorities and there is a hell of a lot of political correctness.
We are getting the best education in the world,healthcare (at least it's something anyway!!!!),employment.

I see no obvious attempt on the part of the fanatical Brahmin or Pakistani governments.I sometimes see apne reading a situation wrongly when it involves a white person and they get too paranoid.

I may appear favourable to whites,but I do not kiss any white man's a**,or any persons a** for that reason,but absolutely grateful for a better dignified life to that would have been given me in Punjab;just think of all the mothers there,Guatemala,Chile,Bosnia etc.who would like to see their children's killers
on trial but have to keep shut.

In London,the mother of Lakhvinder Singh Reel,who drowned in the Thames River in 1997,has got the politicians,police and media listening to her belief that her son died suspiciously,after a racial incident.
He went to my University.
Now some action is being taken.She deserves some peace.

In Punjab,none of the mothers are on TV nor are in the news.Compare the Stephen Lawrence case.

I know for sure the USA is much different(5th Amendment,'hate' groups,'hate' crimes),but still miles apart from India.

Cooljat,your opinion is pretty cynical.....'biting the hand that feeds you'.

Sandhu,Im sure which country and government I would choose.

Take care.

Thank you Taj. So you agree that Sikhs did commit human right violations against Hindus in punjab.
As for proof, the Air India bombing. You can read all about it in your free time.

The govt (congress) responsible for the wrongs done to Sikhs is out of power now.

The current govt actually did try to punish those responsible for the 84' riots but the judicial system is too weak to punsih them (sajjan kumar, hkl bhagat etc). So how is the current govt an enemy of sikhs??? If you want to change the judicial system , then firat of all, ther should be a stable govt in power which seems like a distant reality. I said it before and I am saying it now, we as good citizens have the responsibility of electing the right policitcal party to rule the country. Even now in punjab, the congress has a lot of policitical powere. So why do sikhs favour congress even though it is a known fact that congress was behind the wrongs done to Sikhs. What has the current govt done to sikhs which equals what the congress did?? I agree the Indira Gandhi deserved what she got. No doubt about that.But how is the current govt in anyway responsible for that?? Just becuase it won the elections on a hindu vote bank?? Well INdia is a coutnry with hindu's as a majority and why can't a majoritity chose a governemtn that caters to its demands?? I know that Sikhs are not a majority in India but that we can elect people who we think will work in our interest.


As for some reports on human rights abuse against Sikhs done by the govt, I agree that there were abuses, but I will give my take on some of the reports published by some US agencies and I will talk abotu the kashmir issue in my next comment

Arjun,

WHy be upset that Muslims took your house? You really think it should be vacant for 53 years, so you, an anti-Muslim, anti-Pakistani,non-panjanbi speaking teen can come back? It would be dumb to make refugees stay in camps while the houses and businesses of 600,000 Hindus/SIkhs were vacant.

Did you also know refugees heading in opposite direction swapped adresses so they could occupy the others house?

Saying sulla makes you look more ignorant and childish than ever before!

All folks please refrain from the word "Sulla". It is a derogatory term.

Arjun,

I think you are the racist here!! Every message you post has racist views in them. You keep referring to Muslims as "sulle" or those paki-sulle. I really don't think you respect everyone as you claim.

>If you have an attitude like this, how do you expect >to compete in the real world, where you have to make >transactions between people of all races

And how do "you" expect to compete in the real world? where you "might" have to deal with Muslims, or sulle as you label them.

You are a confused racist.

Ridwan Khan
couldnt have put it better.

Sandhu
1).No it was not OK and never will be.

2).No it was not OK and never will be.

The ones who have suffered in all of this are the innocent and all thoughts are with them,Hindu and Sikh.

But what I have said,is that all lies?
Read Sikhs of the Punjab by J.Pettigrew
and Fighting for faith and Nation by C.Keppley
Also check out a site called Burning Punjab,that should help you.
And I dont know what country youre in,but read Des Pardes newspaper and ask Amnesty Int.(website) on human rights abuses in Punjab.

Answer this,why is it that the Indian govt. hasnt ever produced evidence against khalistani's when these massacres took/take place,yet it jumps all over its head that ONLY SIKHS are to blame;no-one claims responsibility,yet the know-it-all govt. is never questioned.People get blamed all the time and no-one suspects otherwise;just see the killings in Kashmir,suspicious?

Why isnt any evidence produced or trial taken place?
Im not saying this is the reality;but who knows?

Gandhi was a clever bitch,'if my every drop of my blood goes to enrich the unity of this country,my death will not be in vain',while thousands killed during Bluestar and Woodrose and thousands detained without trial.

Very well put Arjun. So COOLJAT lay off everyone, and respect them like you would want in return.

Whats your problem, COOLJATT,
Are you racist against whites or something? You hate Hindus likewise? What the hell did a white man ever do to you? I think that you're just exaggerating now. And plus, do you have to be on everybody's ass all the time?
You don't have the right to call me a Hindu Sikh wannabe. I don't wanna be a Sikh. Does that offend u? I'm content just as a Hindu. So what's your problem?
If you have an attitude like this, how do you expect to compete in the real world, where you have to make transactions between people of all races. God gave some people a raw deal, and he stuffed a golden spoon into other people's mouths. You gotta be smart and gracious that he did give you a better life than most other people. You're lucky he chose you to go to a Western country. And mind you, it's a white country that you are living in. The country that you are living in didn't give immigration to you because of any obligation to you. The "gorays" that you hate gave you a chance.
You can't just go on mumbling about all Hindus being bad, cause I know I'm not bad. I have respect for all people (except maybe sullas), because that was the way that I was raised.
I'm sorry if any of your relatives got killed by Hindu mobs in Dehli or elsewhere, but does the whole Hindu community owe you? I don't think so. Most of the Hindus that did kill those Sikhs were uneducated, low-caste street thugs and political dumbasses leftists, who don't know the nature of politics at all. They were led on by corrupt politicians and others, like the Arya Samaj. They don't, in any way, confirm what Hindus think about Sikhs, and how a Hindu is supposed to act towards Sikhs.

That was my opinion...

You know I agree cooljat someone can not be both Sikh and Hindu they are two complety seprate religons with differetn beliefs..thats simple to understand. I just want to know what your problem is with the white man?.. Have you experienced alot of racism or something?.. Not all white people are evil and think there better than everyone else Okay.!~

HINDUS THINK EVERYTHING BELONGS TO THEM

GETTING THROWN OUT OF FIJI

YOU CAN GO ON AND ON AND ON

JUST BECUZ YOU LICKED THE WHITEMANS ASS, DOESN'T MAKE YOU THE BOSS.

I THINK ARJUN IS HINDU SIKH WANNABE
WE KNOW YOUR TRUE COLOURS

YOU CANT BE BOTH MATE

My first tongue has been English. I have a kind of resentment against my parents for it. They thought it was best for me and my older sister, when we were both born in the states. I guess they got confused or something. Anyways, me and my sister are learning Hindi and Punjabi. I can even write a little Punjabi in the Gurmukhi script. But I'm 18, so learning a new language at this stage of life is very difficult.

We are Hindu Punjabis. My mother and father are both Hindus. the family was originally in Pakistan, in Lahore. I had an ancestor, named Balaram Mukija Singh, who was a menial general to Maharaja Ranjit Singh, and the Maharaj quartered a house for him and others in his army. But that house, the last time we heard of it, this year, is now taken over by two families, a Bihari Muslim family and other paki sulla "unpleasants".

Sorry to make your question seem long. I consider myself a very weak and superficial Hindu, although I'm taking "tapasya", or atonement for sins, that "Kshatriya" Hindus go through at least once in their life.

arjun.

what do you consider yourself.sikh or hindu.

what is your mother tongue.hindi or punjabi.thanks

right..on every board now COOLJAT.. Judgement day is coming!...Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!..

damn COOLJAT,
I didn't know that you believed in Armaggedon. Are you somehow bitter that your friend, him being a low-caste Hindu gets to marry a high-caste Sikhi Jatt? I don't wanna intrude. But you kinda sounded like the "OMEN" there. It kinda scared me there, bud.

Sandu

You are right to certain point not all Hindus are to be blamed for what happened to Sikhs. There were many who risked their lives to save their neighbors and we should be grateful to them. There were also some who turned in their neighbors. The govt. of the time is the biggest culprit.

As to your first question "What did some Sikhs do to Hindus in Punjab?" can you please present some evidence regarding what happened. As far as I can remember the sentiment of sikhs was anti-government (more like anti-indra ghandi and anti-congress)not anti-hindu.

Taj here are 2 questions. I cannot put it in a more simpler language. Please answer them based upon facts and not emotion as emotion could be affected by a bad neighbour trying to cause trouble in an otherwise peaceful enviornment.

1) What some sikhs did to Hindus in Punjab before the 84'riots was OK???

2) What Indian Govt. did to Sikhs after the 84 riots was ok???

Here is my take on these questions:

Answer 1) What sikhs did to Hindus before the 84' riots was NOT ok as it is against sikhi.

Answer 2) What Indian Govt. did to Sikhs WAS NEVER OK.

So you tell me, how come Hindus are to be blamed for what happened???

Also please advise what kind of Government would you rather see in India????

People,

I for one am sick of hearing remarks of Sikh-Hindu friendship on the account that Muslims are the bad guys. Get real. Why dont you two look at what you two did to each other, whether fanatical sikhs, or fascist brahmins. A friendship forged on hate for a third party is a sad relationship in which you both will get hurt. Keep that in mind

Sandhu
Id like to ask you do you know of cash bounties and encounter killings?youngsters chased from home,college,villages,cities and 'going underground'?what about rapes and harassment?what about torture tactics,illegal detention,'kalle kache',thousands languishing in jail without trial for years,intelligence spies and moles,traitors?

Human rights groups,US Congress 1992 etc. have said over 100,000 Sikhs have been killed since 1982.100,000!!!!
In villages there is the saying,'pinda vich mundiahn dhe barath nahin vi nikl ni kaffi cher layee' (a boys wedding procession isnt going to leave the villages for ages);or 'lokka dhe karr khalee hoge',people's homes have been emptied (of youths).

This isnt getting anywhere.

TO GORRIEGIRL

i didnt read your message earlier, but if you didnt know my own brother has married a whitegirl and my parents get on with her better than my wife.

And i was talking about Hindu girls in England, never give us a chance, love following the mainstream.

My lowcaste Hindu friend just got married to a JAT
sikh girl last week, ive no objection, becuz we all got blood in our veins, JUDGEMENT DAY will arrive for everyone, only fools don't beleive this

Those guilty of treating other humans with disrepect
will pay the biggest price. look forward to this day and we will all be VICTORIOUS.

JUDGEMENT DAY

THOSE OF you that look forward to JUDGEMENT day

will be the VICTORIOUS ones

Sandu please refrain from acting like a GURU, people can post their opinions here as well.

Taj, please refrain from making any comments that are not backed by proven facts.

The govt in India before the 84' riots was a congress govt, the current govt. is a Brahmin Govt.. my dear fellow sikhs, I ask you, what kind of govt would you want in India? Obvisouly, there is never going to be a sikh govt.. but sikh representatives will always be part of govt..Its is we the people that decide who rules.. so we can be good citizens and vote for the person who we think is best suited to run the govt..blaming an elected govt is no solution.

taj~ you are a smart man!!

ALL
Let's lay off Arjun for a bit.He is a Hindu and a Punjabi,and should be proud of his heritage like every being should be.Im very happy that a Hindu Punjabi feels like this,kionke sade vi hindu punjabi bhai aur pehn ithe England vich hage ne jisnu Punjabi hon da bohoth hi mann hai;thahn ferr sanu kadhi ronn aundha.Assi sarre valethi Punjabi,Hindu aur Sikh,kateh randhe ne,pyar vich;ehe Punjab dhe desi Hindu nalohn jadhe chunge.

He clearly wants some kind of relation of sorts with Sikhs,to discover his roots(which is why he wanted the meaning behind 'pind')and let's not turn him away.If he is ignorant about what the Brahmin govt. is doing to Punjab,then direct him to the right place for the info.If he hates muslims,which is wrong,then tell him so.

But there is no need to put anyone down.
Take care.