you aint got an augument and you aint got a discussion here as a hindu or as a person.

so you can be as smug as you like coz the one thing that hindus are expert at is convincing themselves that black is white and white is black.

how can you question anything at all when you go round worshipping indira as a brahmin and the gandhis as hindu icons when they are more muslim than anything else.
and i dont like to say this but its only recent that ram has been known to have born in aroydha.all this education but that little gem slipped your minds for a few thousand years,
yeh,masters of the forked tongue and doublespeak.
you have convinced nobody cept yourself and intelligent sikhs have no need to discuss with your so called point or augument.in any other language its known as waffle.

now go home and pat yourself on the back .it takes some nerve to be so daft.

Hi there jatts

I am afraid you have completely failed present the answers to the questions that I have put forward to you for the second time, and therefore unable to defend your position.

As consequences I have destroyed all your previous arguments about Sikhism and the origin about the Jatts. The truth finally comes out after all this time.

So at the end of the day its all very well saying you Hind MF this and you Hindu MF that, but when it comes to intelligent discussion you don’t stand a chance.

Good luck with the religion, I hope it works out.

PS: If you do mange to think or make up some answers, then I will still be interested. I will be watching these pages.

just one last point.sikhs drink but really should not--its wrong.its not allowed but men and women--hindu have always drunk .its very accepted and always has been in hindu circles for females to drink coz they think that they are modern and all that.thats where some of the sikhs have picked it up from and we should not.if you go to a hindu party ,wedding,anything at all---the females drink as a matter of fact--no probs.

i went to a brahmin wedding once and it was at a mandir of course.after the service,they cleared things away and in the same hall,had the deejay,dancing,food including all the meat dishes and a booze up.i was very very surprised that it was allowed,but none of the hindus batted an eyelid.and the pandit never did either.these people were mehtas and i know many sharmas and bawas and brigues,too.

on the other hand,i know some brahmins who always have akandparths in the gurdwaras.

this hindu is tarun.check out the site.hes gone all over posting as tarun and then as a hindu.

so just save your energy.

the way they talk as if all hindus are of one mind.its just not so.they have a caste system and its this caste system that gave rise to there religion.
if you leave out punjab and look at the rest of india,meaning hindu india--you see riots and demos every 10 minutes and its between themselves.look at the anti muslim riots and the anti govt quota job riots.we dont get them in punjab and anybody can go into a gurdwara but low caste hindus cannot enter a mandir or a polling booth,used by higher up hindus.

sikhs have plenty of auguments amongest ourselves but we have a fairer mind and jatts have a republican attitude which means that we have a more democratic process in place and thats why punjab is the leader despite the centers avowed policy to undermine our state.

why your bothing to take issue with a hindu whose's talking a load of rubbish,i dont know.

Hi there, cooljat, arjun, taj etc….

So many replies to my posting, I must have said something that seems to have hit the nail on the head. Where shall I start?
OK lets go. Enjoy….

However before we get in to your answers, you failed to some important question I put forward to you last time, so I’ll try again to see if you have the answers:

Q1. “Why do the vast majority of the Sikhs eat meat and drink alcohol ? This is not allowed in the Sikh religion and forbidden in the gurudwara. So why do it, and go against the religion?

Q2. “If Sikhism was appealing to both Hindu and Muslim, then what proportion of the Muslims took on Sikhism as their religion?

Q3. “This question on the Jatts, if the Jatts were known to be fierce meat eaters and drinkers, maintained their surnames and their culture independent and separate of the Hindu religion, ruled North India for 700, then having this cultural identity why convert to Sikhism and dilute your identity? Surley the Jatt identity would have been powerful enough? Or was there something missing in being a Jatt that forced the Jatts to convert to Sikhism? And if the Jatts were the founders of Sikhism then why allow Hindus (the people you most disliked) in your religion? If you have allowed these Hindus in your religion, then are they on equal terms as the Jatts of inferior? If they were inferior then is this not implicit caste system? And why do the Jatts still distinguish themselves as Jatts in the Sikh religion? I though being a Sikh meant that that there was one identity and everyone who was a Sikh was equal! Is this true or not?

Q4. “Question of what Sikhs were before becoming Sikhs? There appears to be conflicting statements, some say they had not Hindus or Muslim, some say they were partial converts from Hindu and others say they were full converts?

Answers please (without swearing, tall order I know, but there is always a hope).


OK NOW FOR THE ANSWERS TO YOUR POSTING:


RESPONSES TO TAJ - Friday, December 1, 2000 - 05:53 pm

1). “MAHASHA HINDU B_ASTARD and M/F”
- swearing seems to play a lot of part of your religion, well I am glad this sort of filth comes out of a Sikh’s mouth (that is if you really are a Sikh or may be your are Sikh just by the name, in which case it does not matter what sort of language you use) than a Hindu mouth. I very much hope that this is not the teaching of Sikhism. But then may be I am wrong.

2). “Sikhs do not practice Karvachauth, Rakhri and Diwali”
It is unlikely that a derived faith will practice everything from the religion it come from, so there is nothing new here.

3). “Sikhs that practice Hindu traditions are considered Deformed Sikhs and brain dead Sikh b_astards”
But I though Sikhism was the most tolerated religion where by it would tolerate people practicing other religions. It seems that Sikhism is NOT tolerant as it always boasted about.


4). “Punjabi Hindu Jatts flocked in their 100,000s to become Sikhs and rejected Hinduism”
But I though you said Sikhs never believed in Hinduism before they become Sikhs. So who is the “Dhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh” now. Please keep your statements consistent and accurate next time before opening your mouth.

5) “Karma - High caste Hindus can do whatsoever they want in this life as they will continue to be reborn brahmin in their next life,as will the other castes”

Hinduism states that the good you do in this life is rewarded in the next, and eventually rewarded by escaping the cycle of transmigration in life. And this is the same belief in Sikhism.


6). “The only thing Hindu with Sikhism is its' initial converts were Hindu”
As per point 3, but I though you said Sikhs never believed in Hinduism before they become Sikhs. So who is the “Dhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh” now. Please keep your statements consistent and accurate next time before opening your mouth (again).
(Another statement contradicting that Sikhs were practicing Hindus before they became Sikhs)


7). “Since when have Sikhs taken cow dung as prasad?”
If you are implying that Hindus do this then it is utter nonsense, where do you get your facts from? Alcohol? And I though you Sikhs were intelligent.

8). “Since when have Sikhs been known to pray to animals,such as rats and cows?”
Unlike the Sikh faith, Hindu faith has respect for all gods creatures. Maybe this is perhaps the reason you call your own people “Deformed Sikhs and brain dead Sikh b_astards”.

9). “Since when was there an idol in any Gurdwara?”
But you still have pictures of the Gurus in literature and in books and you still make reference to them, so if these are not idols then what are they?


10). “Since when do we practice Hindu rituals and customs,except those genetically deformed 'Sikhs' who set foot inside Mandirs to do those satanic practices,the offspring of Sikh-Hindu marriages”

But I though Sikhism was the most tolerated religion where by it would tolerate people practicing other religions. Obviously then this statement and the teaching of your religion is completely FALSE and this makes the Sikhs are the most racist people on earth.


11). “Since when have Sikhs ever married their nieces and sisters like some of Hindus do in some parts of North India”.

Sorry to disappoint you, but Hindus never marry they nieces or sisters. Again a gutter and an alcohol statement. So what’s new?


12). “Since when were there any lewd,sexual,violent,racist and sexist contents in Sikhism like some of the Hindu scriptures?”

I am afraid you have just contradicted yourself and your Sikh religion completely. Let me explain, by calling your Sikhs “MF deformed Sikhs and brain dead Sikh b_astards”. Think before you talk next time. Little swearing may help your brain next time.

13). “If Sikhism was meant to 'reform' Hinduism,why havent you lallas converted now?Why havent Hindus still given up your freaked out ways?”

Was Sikhism meant to reform the Hinduism? When?

14). “How come no-one in my extended family as well as immediate never set foot inside a mandir or performed your countless rituals or idols?We never will.I have no idea what a mandir looks like on the inside”.

What sort of statement is this? alcohols talk again?. I would not expect a muslim to have any idea about a mandir, so what makes you so special, again please do not let your ego and alcohol get in the way of clear thoughts.


15). “Since when did Sikhs marry mongrel dogs to get rid of their bad karmic loads like the lalla Hindu mahasha's did in the summer with a bahman priest doing the ceremony in Calcutta?”

Please provide evidence. You seems to have heard lot of things but no evidence? Or is this just gutter talk as usual? And even if this is true, it does not reflect the mainstream Hindu religion. You yourself have said the same thing about some Sikhs, what was it that you called your Sikhs oh yes “MF deformed Sikhs and brain dead Sikh b_astards”.

16). “Its a fact that Jatts of Punjab never were Hindus in the absolute sense;they were originally Scythian people from Central Asia who migrated to India 600 years before Christ”

Big deal (probably is to you). So whats new here, trans-migration has always been a way of life, people over the centuries migrated all over the world, as an example, the Greeks invaded northern India. And the history of northern India has been littered with invaders, so what’s so special about the Jatts?, Big Ego may be?

17). “Jatts were known to be fierce meat eaters and drinkers,maintained their surnames and their culture independent and separate of the Brahmanical system,ruled North India for 700 years,never accepted the crap of the Hindus”

So if Jatts has such a powerful identity then why invent the Sikh religion or become part of the Sikh religion? Was it because the Jatts identity is just an big ego statement by you and it need something more than alcohol and meat? And you do you explain Jatt Hindus? Are you saying they were Hindus or not?

18) “Statements from the GGS - I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan, I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end, The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah, He adminsters justice to both Hindus and Muslims, I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other, I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers, I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there, I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim”

All this is saying is that you worship one God and that you are not believers of Hindu or Islam. So what statement are you making about the Sikh religion? I can say that I, being an Hindu, am not a Christian or a Muslim or a Buddhist, So what? Not much of a statement is it for a great religion?


RESPONSES TO TAJ - Friday, December 1, 2000 - 05:53 pm
1). “Oi you f.ing inbred Hindu b_astard,”

Here we go again, the teaching of the Sikh religion. Tell me does these world appear in your GGS?


2). “DuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuH”.
But you just said that Sikhs did practice Hindu religion (partially it may be). So pleas reply properly, may be you don’t have a proper answer.

3). “No loss of love on our part.We are perfectly happy hating mahasha's.
Save your lurid political statements”.

What you are saying is that because you cannot make an intelligent point or have an answer you swear. Well my friend, you can swear and hate me much as you want, but the fact that you are unable to reply properly shows your limitation.

4). “Kindness is also a fundamental tenet of all the world's faiths.Why are you looking at karma and reincarnation in isolation to the rest of Sikhism?Like rat worshipping,niece/sister marriages,idol worship,marriage to animals,worship of animals,eating cow shit etc.”

On the kindness front, I am afraid you have contradicted yourself and the Sikh religion by calling some of the Sikhs ““MF deformed Sikhs and brain dead Sikh b_astards”.

On the other topics, it baffles me where you get your facts from, Hindus do not eat cow shit, marry animals, worship rat or marry niece or sisters. Next time keep it factual or keep it shut. You are not doing any favours to the Sikh religion, I mean what sort of message you are giving about the Sikh religion here. A bad one if I may say so.

5). “Sikhism has a lot more in common with other religions too.Or did you forget.Case in point,charity,Shabad(Sikhism)=the Word(Christians),Rabh,monotheism,One Supreme God,holy war,5 Pillars/5 Khalsa Rehats(Islam),racial,caste,ethnic equality(Buddhism,Islam).I could be here all day.”

From that statement, yes you will be there all day (in fact you could be there for a whole week). You make lot of references to lot of religion, but So what? Not much of a statement is it for a great religion if a religion it self has no opinion of its own?


6). “I’ve yet to meet a single Hindu who is prepared to leave us alone and accept the truth about the blame the Hindu vermin holds for the crisis of the 1980's,or better yet capable of feeling apalled at the level of mass murder of non-Hindu minorities and the systematic rape of the females of these communities”.

The events of the mid ’80 were tragic consequences on both sides. The Sikhs murdered in Delhi and other parts of India was appalling and you are right that Sikh families did not receive any justice from the Indian Government.

However, but by making this statement, you should also be appalled at the number of Hindus murdered in Punjab and Haryana. And you should also be appalled by armed and military operation based inside the Golden Temple running guerrilla attacks and murdering innocent people.

And I am sure if the role was reversed, and if there were Hindu militants running Sikh killing operation, Sikhs would have no hesitation in using armed force.


7). “Do I have many good Sikh friends and what do they have to say about your 'opinions'?

Yes I do actually, and regarding my opinions we agree to disagree, but none of this you MF this and you MF that. That is not the teaching of the Hindu and Sikh religion, and the other filth and vulgar language that comes out of your mouth.

8). “Idols - All religionists of the world's faiths have this problem.See across,Christians,Muslims,Jews.I do not and have not worshipped the Guru's photos. I revere them no end.”

But you make references to them all the time. It is in the literature, photos are in the books.

9) 'Finally, Guru Govind Singh said that the story of Ram is immortal and everyone should read it. Sikhism also says the Quran is the Word of God,and its true,Guru Nanak Dev Ji(I think). And you want a quote and complete reference/citation”

Being a Hindu, I am not in possession of GGS so I can’t give you a complete reference. But this is your territory, surely you must have copy of the GGS, you appear to have made several references from GGS in your earlier statement. Please let me know if I have misunderstood this statement.


10). “Now f. off you Hindu lalla b_astard. I agree kill these mahasha's.Dont waste bullets,poison their water supply with the HIV virus.Read Hitler's Mein Kampf,and substitute the imagery and vileness about Jews with the classic Hindu b_astard,a truly ugly race.Hindus fit Hitler's description perfectly.”

Teachings of the Sikhism again? or just a beer talk? I think it’s the latter. Does Sikhism tells you to be a racist? And what’s your comment on calling your own people “deformed Sikhs and brain dead Sikh b_astards?”.


I await your reply.
And please no more beer talk.

Taj,

U've re-written a post again (the one with 10 reasons why sikhs aren't hindu) - I agree sikhs aren't hindu.
I do however believe that,there are many overlaps and to pull out foolish statements like "sikhism is more like judaism or christianity" etc is crap.


Anyways - I gave you some points (dated Sun.26th November).Please get back to me on them.In particular the Malwa Brars scenario.

Laterz,
Tarun.

PS:- AKB hasn't said anything bad/personal about you, so I think it's out of order to chat about her like that ("that she takes it up the arse")

One more thing LL CoolJatt,you have to understand that whatever these bahman pandits say,these Hindus believe every word they say and eat every ounce of shit that falls out of their mouths and arses.This now includes Sikhs too,and we should commission a study,perhaps it could be they are the offspring of these mixed relationships,where the Hindu side carries defective genes derived from the incestous Panja Pandavas tradition of the lalley.The Jatts are a paranoid lot about incest,going 3 or 4 gotras up in the family to eliminate the possibility of the surname of the prospective being the same as one of the ancestors.Which explains that Jatts were not really all too flattered being lalley and flocked to the Great Guru Gobind Singh Ji.It was something they felt reflected their just,independent and republican nature.Arjun lalley,are you related to that fuddu lalla 'Master' Tara Singh Malhotra?All it takes is for a kutti da putt to come in,say a few words to a few usual dumb people and get them fighting each other.These bastards dont even know the way of the country,or the people involved themselves.Jinah,Nehru,Malhotra all digging the knife in,especially among the Jatts,stirring the religion card.If Punjabis had used their loafs a little bit more often Punjab would still be united,but oh no people are dumb.Big and dumb,hee haws.But what does that say about lalley?F.ing geniuses.And ours?I dont think the Hindu Punjabi Jatts or Muslim Jatts give a shit about us,so they must be riding with their fellows.Either way,Sikhs need to stick together against the cunning lalla,our religion is better than anything and it depends on us.Sikhs love for Sikhs first and Sikhs only.

LL CoolJatt,I respect your opinions about Hindus and believe me everyone here does not buy their holy cow dung,Sikh-Hindu bhai bhai.I feel reassured to hear you say those things,just imagine another apna crying tears for lalley mahasha lal chand Hindu's,especially Bahmans.The only one taking it up the ass is AKB.Teach your kids about all this,because believe me I have a cult growing around me.Take care.Sikhs love for Sikhs first and Sikhs only.

Arjun Malhotra Lal Chand Mahasha,

'If you had said that whole bit about my girls, my past girlfriends, or anything about my family, say BYE to the world bitch.'

Oh please,sitting behind a computer screen threatening me in the comfort of that hillbilly cowboy state,1000's of miles.Give it a rest.Go join a boy group.I did say that about your partners,read on.

'I don't need my "gat" on you,'

You will need it if you ever face me one on one.

'Who I go out with is no concern to you, so in simplest terms, "fuc k OFF".'

Well what are you telling us about your endeavours for?On that reasoning,what Sikh girls are doing with Muslims is none of your business either.No I will not f. off.

'As for me saying shit about Muslims recently, show me.'

The word Duuuuh doesnt describe the Hindu does it.You were also on India Talk with your usual crap.But oh no Hindus arent dating and marrying Sikhs are they.

'As for converting Sikhs into Hindus, err... Where in hell did you get that notion?'

Article 25,RSS,Government policies towards Hindus being forced and applied to sikhs as well,academic claims we are Hindus etc.I keep hearing the same old shit by Hindus mostly and its' making me hate you Hindus more and more.Hindus annihilated Buddhists,absorbed Jains,forced South Indians and lower castes to follow Vedic Hinduism(Puke) and now its the turn of the Sikhs.

'My aunt got married to a Sikh, she converted.'

Mrs Bhatti scenario again.What kind of aunt/Sikh is she to convert in a love situation?Goes to show her sincerity.Was she forced?Was she really in love?What did I say about Sikh-Hindu marriages and fuddus converting to a religion for the sake of their lovers?Or maybe your aunt was visibly repulsed by Hinduism?Tell me Arjun,so many people in your family (the lalla side) seem to enjoy marrying Sikhs.I mean do you guys have a swap convention for Sikhs and Hindus drinking themselves and deluding themselves they are brothers,and then checking out the prospectives for a sex orgy and eventual marriage.Sikh Hindu unions are unacceptable and disgusting.PS.Hindus treat women like shit too,perhaps worse than Muslims.But then again its' all too convenient for a Hindu to oversee his Satanic race and its' evil capabilities,and look to the Muslim with isolation,the scapegoat.And the Hindu 'Punjabi's' in the UK are wearing karrey and acting like Sikhs and using their 'Punjabi' charm to lure Sikh girls into marriages.And the sexually depraved 'Sikh' guys chasing Hindu lalla skirts.

TAJ

I agree with what your saying, but i really don't
think we should be worrying about these BRAHMINS
slaves, cuz thats all they are.

Yesterday i was on a boxing site & people from the
UK and USA were cussing hindu beleifs & ways no end,
I was totally bewildered at how much these people
know about hinduism & its beleifs, & talking about these issues on this site.the outside WORLD is getting to know the real STORY about these COW DUNG hindoo's - & they are sickened to no end knowing that humanity could live with such perverted systems.

The worlds MEDIA are slowly exposing there sick ways
of LIFE, so please obey rule no 1

Don't argue with the slave of a BRAHMIN (ASM).

"Arjun,laallia so you think you're f.ing bad killing an animal.Makes you tough.Im getting really pissed off with you maligning Muslims no end,I mean do you have a life?You said youre shagging a white girl,like the Hindu mahasha lalley did with the British to have India as theirs on independence.You also said you had a few Italian chicks,and bragged to Ridwan about your 'Paki hoes'.So for all this concern for Sikh girls and Hindu girls.What are you doing then?What are your social aims?Yet you have a lot of gandh to speak about Muslim guys with non-Muslim girls.I have said dont worry about Sikh girls,they're not your problem or your business,worry about your own Hindu slappers getting married off to their 5 brothers or nephews.Stick to Hindu girls.Sikh girls are our responsibility,not yours yet do you give it a rest.'Sullas' this,'Pakis' that.But oh no Hindus arent forcing Sikhs into the Hindutva fold are they?Have you heard of Rashtriya Sikh Sangat and Article 25?What do you have to say about these neverending mind numbing claims by Hindus that Sikhism 'comes from Hinduism'?Hindus arent killing non-Hindus are they?And youve bragged no end about the murder and rape in Kashmir,but are prepared to berate me about your slapper of a kanjri bhabhi.The Hindus didnt annihilate the Buddhists did they?Or humiliate the lower caste Hindus did they?Hindus dont rape and kill non-Hindu women do they,Sikh,Muslim,Christian,Dalit,tribals etc.?Like I said,marry a Hindu girl,you are 800 million and we are 19 million,run a crap filthy country Bharat,have nuclear weapons,can kill and control at will,and if thats not enough and you still believe in Sikhs and Hindus as brothers and its OK for you to marry a Sikh girl and convert her to your dirty Hindu ways like the Muslims do,jaa phir apni kanjri bhabhi di izzat lutt,assi apney massoom Sikhaan pehena da badla nu ronney ya.I pray that every Sikh-Hindu union does not have children born in them.One of our family friends' daughters married a H 'P' and for the last 13 years she still cant give a kid.Ha ha bitch. "

I would say that actually getting hoes instead of talking about another person's "voyeaurs" is much better. If you had said that whole bit about my girls, my past girlfriends, or anything about my family, say BYE to the world bitch. I don't need my "gat" on you, fuckin pugilism would be the first option. Who I go out with is no concern to you, so in simplest terms, "fuc k OFF". As for me saying shit about Muslims recently, show me. As for converting Sikhs into Hindus, err... Where in hell did you get that notion? My aunt got married to a Sikh, she converted.

Arjun,laallia so you think you're f.ing bad killing an animal.Makes you tough.Im getting really pissed off with you maligning Muslims no end,I mean do you have a life?You said youre shagging a white girl,like the Hindu mahasha lalley did with the British to have India as theirs on independence.You also said you had a few Italian chicks,and bragged to Ridwan about your 'Paki hoes'.So for all this concern for Sikh girls and Hindu girls.What are you doing then?What are your social aims?Yet you have a lot of gandh to speak about Muslim guys with non-Muslim girls.I have said dont worry about Sikh girls,they're not your problem or your business,worry about your own Hindu slappers getting married off to their 5 brothers or nephews.Stick to Hindu girls.Sikh girls are our responsibility,not yours yet do you give it a rest.'Sullas' this,'Pakis' that.But oh no Hindus arent forcing Sikhs into the Hindutva fold are they?Have you heard of Rashtriya Sikh Sangat and Article 25?What do you have to say about these neverending mind numbing claims by Hindus that Sikhism 'comes from Hinduism'?Hindus arent killing non-Hindus are they?And youve bragged no end about the murder and rape in Kashmir,but are prepared to berate me about your slapper of a kanjri bhabhi.The Hindus didnt annihilate the Buddhists did they?Or humiliate the lower caste Hindus did they?Hindus dont rape and kill non-Hindu women do they,Sikh,Muslim,Christian,Dalit,tribals etc.?Like I said,marry a Hindu girl,you are 800 million and we are 19 million,run a crap filthy country Bharat,have nuclear weapons,can kill and control at will,and if thats not enough and you still believe in Sikhs and Hindus as brothers and its OK for you to marry a Sikh girl and convert her to your dirty Hindu ways like the Muslims do,jaa phir apni kanjri bhabhi di izzat lutt,assi apney massoom Sikhaan pehena da badla nu ronney ya.I pray that every Sikh-Hindu union does not have children born in them.One of our family friends' daughters married a H 'P' and for the last 13 years she still cant give a kid.Ha ha bitch.

Oi you f.ing inbred Hindu b_astard,

'You said your ancestors were Hindu only by name but did not practice it, yet we hear lot that the Sikhs rejected the Hindu religion to become Sikhs, but how can you reject something you never believed in?'

DuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuH.

'I think we can leave your statement to the gutter (see my previous postion), I very much hope and pray that your behaviour and the language you use to make a point about your religion not a reflection of your Sikh community. However, if I am wrong and the fact that Sikhism allows you use such as vulgar language to describe itself then all I can say is that I you can keep your Sikh religion.'

No loss of love on our part.We are perfectly happy hating mahasha's.
Save your lurid political statements.

'yet the Sikh believe in reincarnation, karma and kindness to all living things, all these belief are the cornerstone of the Hindu religion. So would you not say that Sikh is derived from Hinduism?'

Kindness is also a fundamental tenet of all the world's faiths.Why are you looking at karma and reincarnation in isolation to the rest of Sikhism?Like rat worshipping,niece/sister marriages,idol worship,marriage to animals,worship of animals,eating cow shit etc.
Sikhism has a lot more in common with other religions too.Or did you forget.Case in point,charity,Shabad(Sikhism)=the Word(Christians),Rabh,monotheism,One Supreme God,holy war,5 Pillars/5 Khalsa Rehats(Islam),racial,caste,ethnic equality(Buddhism,Islam).I could be here all day.

'Obviously you will argue that Hindus eat meat and drink alcohol, however, I like to state that this is not on the same scale as the Sikhs. I have yet to meet a single Sikh who does not drink or eat alcohol.'

Ive yet to meet a single Hindu who is prepared to leave us alone and accept the truth about the blame the Hindu vermin holds for the crisis of the 1980's,or better yet capable of feeling apalled at the level of mass murder of non-Hindu minorities and the systematic rape of the females of these communities.

'And I have may good Sikh friends.'

Do you really!
What do they have to say about your 'opinions'?

'Thirdly, there has been statement on these pages that unlike Hindus, Sikhs do not worship idols. But does the Sikhs pictures of the Gurus - aren't they icons?'

All religionists of the world's faiths have this problem.See across,Christians,Muslims,Jews.I do not and have not worshipped the Guru's photos.I revere them no end.

Please provide an explanation to the quotes of Guru Gobind Singh on what he felt about idols.Scroll down at my last message.'Idol breaker'.

'Finally, Guru Govind Singh said that the story of Ram is immortal and everyone should read it.'

Sikhism also says the Quran is the Word of God,and its true,Guru Nanak Dev Ji(I think).

Its Gobind not Govind you Pandvasi inbred Hindu.I want a quote and complete reference/citation for that,though Im not saying youre wrong.

'Whoever listens to or sings his story, will be free of sin and sorrow. Is this not another evidance thet Sikhism is derived from the Hinduism?'

You complete pratt.
Again look at everything in isolation you Hindu mahasha.

'I look forward to your reply.'

Same here.

Now f. off you Hindu lalla b_astard.
I agree kill these mahasha's.Dont waste bullets,poison their water supply with the HIV virus.Read Hitler's Mein Kampf,and substitute the imagery and vileness about Jews with the classic Hindu b_astard,a truly ugly race.Hindus fit Hitler's description perfectly.

MAHASHA HINDU B_ASTARD

1). Please explain why no-one in my extended as well as immediate families,here and back home do not indulge in corrupting false Hindu practices as you have mentioned like the depraved Karvachauth,save Rakhri and Diwali,the latter which Im made to accept for my cousin sisters sake and the former because of fireworks only!To be honest rakhri is total bullshit,why make a commitment to your sisters on one day of the year,when they deserve it for an entire lifetime.
2). Faridkot is where we are from and Holi is not celebrated by any of our pindus,and that also goes for all the other villages where members of our extended families are married or have roots,inc. Ferozepur,and my nankey in Ludhiana.T take a look at the long list of questions I posed to your fellow below and attempt to answer them.
3). The reason Sikhs do those Hindu practices are as I have explained,awry hormones and centuries of taking it up the ass;that should explain why a few genetically deformed Sikhs were hostile to the Great Sant,whose directions as a Sikh in his heroic life were pristine Sikhi and puritan,not Hinduistic.I shall leave open the question for you as to why our families do not indulge as Sikhism is good enough,and why are you so selective in your criticisms,mentioning only a few Hindu practices that you saw a few brain dead Sikh b_astards googling over and not the more extreme Hindu rawaaj as I have outlined in my earlier posts?
4). You explain why Punjabi Hindu Jatts flocked in their 100,000s to become Sikhs and rejected Hinduism.Simple.
5). Islam and Sikhism have many many similarities,but so what,Christianity and Judiasm does too with these two religions.Funnily enough Islam means 'submission',to rid yourself of the false pride and ego and submit to Almighty Allah's will and love;Moh,Labh,Kaam,Krodh and Hankar are also have Islamic expression.But then again so what?The three religions are very different in many ways.How will you attempt to reconcile them?Remember Bharaio Mehl by Guru Nanak Dev Ji,'I am not a Hindu,I am not a Muslim etc.'Scroll down and see for yourself as that is good enough proof for any Sikh that we are a distinct religion;please let the Great Gurus speak for themselves.
6). Sikhism does have similarities with your religion,but on the issue of karma,we believe you can change it and escape the cycle of 1000s of transmigrations in life,and carve out your own destiny,unlike the brahmanical belief and caste system you adhere to so dearly.High caste Hindus can do whatsoever they want in this life as they will continue to be reborn brahmin in their next life,as will the other castes.Sikhism does not believe that,you reap what you sow.We dont believe in doing now what will be rewarded with a place in Heaven;we believe in creating a Heaven on Earth through devotion to the Almight and humanity;good deeds.As for Dasam Granth,it is believed to be corrupted by the brahmin bards and poets in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's court as some of the passages are written by lallas and we are only to follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji,not Dasam Granth;you tell me why did he outlaw idol,stone,animal,grave worship for Khalsa Sikhs in the Rehatnama and the punishment for breaking such laws is excommunication by the Panth and the Khalsa;it is on the same par as alcohol and drugs,adultery,shedding hair and not to eat ritual meat.You tell me why he said on his death,'The offspring of whosoever erects a monument in my name shall perish',and he described himself as an 'idol breaker' (if I recall correctly).I have read a quote from the GGS Ji which says 'idol worship is useless'.
7). The only thing Hindu with Sikhism is its' initial converts were Hindu who realised how stupid they were after all those centuries of wasted efforts and brain-drain thinking;the Gurus were born Hindu but rejected it totally from the moment they attained mukti;and yes there are slight similiarities,in terms of terminology and 1 or 2 like beliefs.But that is as far as it goes for me.Sikhism does not come from Hinduism otherwise please make provision for Islam in the equation;Sikhism can be said to have been heavily influenced by Sufism and has its' origins proper in this,but then again Sufi saints flocked to the Guru's side,case in point Guru Arjun Dev Ji.I prefer to live in denial rather than believe Sikhi is a direct descendant of Hinduism as Guru Nanak Dev Ji had to adopt some parts to deliver his unique divine message to the audience of the time.

PLEASE ANSWER THESE.......

1). Since when have Sikhs taken cow dung as prasad?
2). Since when have Sikhs been known to pray to animals,such as rats and cows?
3). Since when was there an idol in any Gurdwara?
4). Since when do we practice Hindu rituals and customs,except those genetically deformed 'Sikhs' who set foot inside Mandirs to do those satanic practices,the offspring of Sikh-Hindu marriages,which pass on the defective genes that result from excessive inbreeding among Hindus with their sisters and nieces in accordance with the Hindu Pandvas tradition?That is a sound enough explanation for their wacky ways.
5). Since when have Sikhs ever married their nieces and sisters like some of Hindus do in some parts of North India?It happened recently in Himachal Pradesh in a Bahman Sharma family.Could that explain why Hindus are so murderous and fascist?
6). Since when were there any lewd,sexual,violent,racist and sexist contents in Sikhism like some of the Hindu scriptures?
7). If Sikhism was meant to 'reform' Hinduism,why havent you lallas converted now?Why havent Hindus still given up your freaked out ways?
8). Since when have Sikhs performed Shiva Linga?
9). How come no-one in my extended family as well as immediate never set foot inside a mandir or performed your countless rituals or idols?We never will.I have no idea what a mandir looks like on the inside.
10). Since when did Sikhs marry mongrel dogs to get rid of their bad karmic loads like the lalla Hindu mahasha's did in the summer with a bahman priest doing the ceremony in Calcutta?
11). On the subject of Sikh ancestors being ex-Hindus,my friend thats where it ends.Period.Their decision was bloody good I say,I couldnt be more approving and happy of that one.Its a fact that Jatts of Punjab never were Hindus in the absolute sense;they were originally Scythian people from Central Asia who migrated to India 600 years before Christ and became Hindu but only partially;they were known to be fierce meat eaters and drinkers,maintained their surnames and their culture independent and separate of the Brahmanical system,ruled North India for 700 years,never accepted the crap of the Hindus,esp. the bahmans,cursed them on their trips to Punjab to read us the riot act of Hinduism,their are accounts of bahmans travelling to Punjab and washing themselves on their return because of the 'impurity' of the Jatts for not following Hinduism to the tee,and even the Mahabharat has a passage similar to that as Ive heard.Sikhism is the only religion never forced on the Punjabis,esp. Jatts,it was not something they had to convert to through force or for convenience sake,but it was something that reflected their independent,just,republican character,and so that explains their mass flock to join Guru Gobind Singh Ji esp. in Malwa.Thank God I have no Hindu relatives.
11). Please read this passage from the Holy GGS Ji:
BHAIRAO MEHL:5

VRAT N REHO N HUM RUMDHANA||
(I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan. )

TIS SAVEE JOE RAKHAY NIDHANA||
(I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. ||1||)

EAK GHUSAI ALLAH MAIRA||
(The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.)

HINDU TURK DHUHA NABAIRA||1|| RAHAO||
(He adminsters justice to both Hindus and Muslims. ||1||Pause||)

HUJ KAABAY JHAO N THEERAT POOJA||
(I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. )

EAKO SAIVY AVER N DHOOJA||
(I serve the One Lord, and not any other ||2||)

POOJA KARO N NIVAJ GUJARO||
(I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.)

EAK NIRANKAR LAY RIDHAY NUMUSKARO||
(I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||)

NAA HUM HINDU, NAA MUSALMAN||
(I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim)
---(Guru Nanak Dev Ji) Guru Granth Shaib

Arjun another point,

You said your ancestors were Hindu only by name but did not practice it, yet we hear lot that the Sikhs rejected the Hindu religion to become Sikhs, but how can you reject something you never believed in? And do you have any answer to why your ancestors did not become Muslims?

So either you have to say Sikhs were practicing Hindus or Muslims or they never had a religion until Sikhism was invented? If that was the case then do you agree that were the Sikhs atheists before becoming Skihs?

I wait for your answer (including answers to my previous posting)

cooljat

I think we can leave your statement to the gutter (see my previous postion), I very much hope and pray that your behaviour and the language you use to make a point about your religion not a reflection of your Sikh community. However, if I am wrong and the fact that Sikhism allows you use such as vulgar language to describe itself then all I can say is that I you can keep your Sikh religion.

Please stay off these web pages until you can talk without swearing.

Arjun,

Firstly, your statement is contradicting somewhat, you say your ancestors were Hindu only by name, yet the Sikh believe in reincarnation, karma and kindness to all living things, all these belief are the cornerstone of the Hindu religion. So would you not say that Sikh is derived from Hinduism?

Secondly, touching on the same subject regarding the fact that you say your ancestors were Hindu only by name, does this not apply to the Sikh religion were one can argue that many Sikhs are sikhs only be by name as they eat MEAT and drink ALCOHOL, which is not allowed in the Sikh religion and forbidden in the gurudwara. So does mean that your religion and belief do not count for anything?

Obviously you will argue that Hindus eat meat and drink alcohol, however, I like to state that this is not on the same scale as the Sikhs. I have yet to meet a single Sikh who does not drink or eat alcohol. And I have may good Sikh friends.

Thirdly, there has been statement on these pages that unlike Hindus, Sikhs do not worship idols. But does the Sikhs pictures of the Gurus - aren't they icons?


Finally, Guru Govind Singh said that the story of Ram is immortal and everyone should read it. Ram went to heaven along with the whole city. Whoever listens to or sings his story, will be free of sin and sorrow. Is this not another evidance thet Sikhism is derived from the Hinduism?

I look forward to your reply.

PS: cooljat please make a point with out swearing otherwise stay off these pages if you have got nothing proper to say.

ASM

You said muslims became sikhs. Only hindus need the caste not Sikhs. Sikhism is against castism. In my family we don't recognize caste at all and there are many more families like mine.

I have a question for the Sikhs here. I know that some Muslims converted to Sikhism. So what caste were they initiated as?

Hindu MF

we were JATS before we became SIKHS, well the majority
of us, & i swear on my life, i would never bow to
a bloodsucking brahmin, you hindu's will always have
unequal status, you regard brahmins as the supreme.

Jats have been decieved by the brahmins many many times, because them bastards fear us, there asskissing
traits have never left them, wake up and smell the
coffe - you BRAHMIN worshippers.

to a hindu:

Why do you pose stupid questions---of course the vast majority of sikhs were hindus prior to Guru Nanak--we sikhs dont deny this. However, our ancestors were never part of the hindu brahmanic system and many were hindus in name only. Our mentality and morals were always different, which is Sikki appealed to us.

arjun dhillon

There is lot of interesting arguments on these pages; however, I would like to know the views of the readers on the following statement:

"Before becoming Sikhs, all Sikhs were Hindus".
TRUE or FALSE?

If the answer is FALSE could please explain what the Sikhs were before becoming Sikhs?

cooleejat

I am so scared that you already converted me from Hindu. Oh please don't scare me again.

At least I know my roots.

Dream on.

Anon

Ive been listening to your crap & you make me sick, i
bet your some sad hindu MF, ask your stupid ASS - who
made the muslims - yours truly - the brahmins - yes
thats right - the ones that you clean there ass with
your tongue - so take my advice - and stop worshipping
the traitors & kill them & stop acting like a MF
gora or you'll have me to deal with - and that would
definately be your last mistake.

You dumb fuckin Luton paki pussies,

Now don't you go and disappoint me by not turning up.

I'm gonna get there early.

You are going to get your fuckin head kicked in.

And look I ain't T or Tarun, you so fuckin dumb pakies who still ain't figured out who I am.

Well on Sat night all will be revealed.

So how has it been with the Americans here? Everybody have a good Thanksgiving? Well, I certainly did. Last Tuesday, I went to this lodge, and it was snowing. I love snow!!! Anyways, this lodge had a hunting area, and also a ski resort. So me and four of my friends, just drove 600 miles. As soon as we got there, we were hunting deer. You should have seen the poor creature. Anyways, we had to cut it up fast, because the toxins in the entrails of a deer may oscillate around the whole meat, therefore making your meat poisonous. So anyways, it was a grisly matter. The resort had grills, so we had the deer, more like a venison roast. It was the best meal I have ever had!!! We broiled the meat first, then we sauteed it with a light German Lager/Pilsner Beer. That gave it the flavor, and add a little soy sauce, and red pepper, you have "Food of the Gods". The red wine topped it off, giving the meat it a distinct flavor. The wine cost us a friggin' $50, but we didn't seem to mind. Then my friend Steve saw a group of Italian chicks from Milan....Well I'll spare you the details.

Tarun do come . you are invited to a once in a lifetime nite to remember. Dont worry about getting back We will get u home in one of our minicabs. u know the ones outside Legends.

whos the bastard on chatsworth ave hounslow?

Anonymous, you fuckin paki

You are one dumb mother fuckin paki son of a bitch, I have to give you that.

I'll fuckin see you at 9:00pm on Sat night at conway.

Boy, are you fuckin going to get it. Your fuckin black paki ass is going to be kicked so hard you ain't go going to sit for a week.

Can't wait.

PS Arjun Wank Malhotra, you are a fuckin dumb black paki as well

u can kick as much as u want.we wont say a word.

meet u conway arms leagrave rd luton. sat nite at 21.00hours.
be there i 'll be sat outside on the wall.
will c how many black backsides u can kick.
turn up T !

Rada, you dumb paki

I ain't T alright, so stop blaming the wrong guy

All this fuckin talk about "I know who you are",

you know fuck_ shit.

You fuckin dark ugly filthy stinking paki_

When I get hold of you I am goining to kick your fuckin black paki ass.

u will have to eat them words T.

you should be ashamed T. I dont want agro bcause of you.

GANG*SP, drop it. I need sleep.

Anonymous

You dirty filthy fuckin paki bastard, why don't to go and suck your fuckin cock and then stick it up your fuckin black ass.

you fuckin paki

T my sweetie cut out the bull pleaseeeee.
kaaf kita condition no more bull from u . u know i know. let me know if u r on de ball or uptake still hard?
thanks

yes abit sagoo aloo want chats-worth but houndsRslow
you know i know soon maybe soon they all know
maaf keeta i not know ???uptake slow ???
not dus numbari maybe ? less..?he know yes he know.
now u know... yes/no want more?

Anonymous,

Don't understand.

Maaf karde.I'm slow on the uptake.

Tarun

from now on u will behave yrself ?

its the CRESENT.

i wanna get my chats-worth but some houndsrslow.

Anonymous,

don't understand a word of what u've written.

Tarun

now lets c T how clever u really r

? ? ?

whad do u say T

i know who u know i thought i'd rada ask u if u knew that i know who u r

rampal:

get a life and some learning---in the Sikh tradition, it is a sin to waste time with a fool, so I will not bother replying to your deeply flawed statements. I simply think you are a clown.


arjun dhillon

ASM don't make me laugh! your the biggest joke on the planet - about bringing my mates!!!! I don't need no mates to confront you! you bring all your family and and "friends" and who ever else that might back your fukin ass!

Rample - your a bitch ass! i'll kick your dark fukin ass any time any place any where - you name it!

Anyone know what castes these names belong to:-

1)Bhasin
2)Sabharwal
3)Suri
4)Marwaha

Tarun

Anonymous,

Yep. I know quite a few.

Tarun.

Tarun know any Jalotas?

Jalotas are Panjabi Khatris.They used to live on the other side (Pak Panjab) but are now scattered everywhere in Indian Panjab.

Tarun.

Taj,
if they became sellouts by becoming Hindus, then what the hell were they before. They were assimilated, they saw that they had no chance of retaining a culture that was in modern Romania, and so the Sakas became Hindus, and ddropped their Iranian tongue. And don't take it upon yourself that you represent all Jats. In the jatt.com URL that you told us to ENJOY says that Jats are Hindu, Muslim, and Sikhs.

Rampal,
what else can I say? Pure IDIOT. And not only an idiot, but a Hindu fascist swine as well. Keep in mind that Hindus are not the keepers of Sikhs, and that if you said some shit like that in London, or anywhere else where Sikhs are a multitude, then what else can I say, you're fucked.

Going back to Taj,
Cool down, "LL CoolTaj". I just read up on Bhindranwale, a whole mess of a chapter on him, by V.S. Naipal, and I read mixed reviews, so some of your theories about BlueStar, separatism for Khalistan, may have some merit. But then they have Oxford-Harvard educated Sikhs and Sikh journalists, who had a different account of the "Sant".

I know what you're gonna say about a Hindu writing the book, but remember, this guy isn't Indian, doesn't even consider himself Hindu, has caught the ire of a Hindu UnderLord in Bombay for his writings and analysis of some Hindu customs, and the guy can't speak Hindi.

Taj,

* You talk of transmigrations through life.That too,is hindu.To be precise - sikhs also believe that there are 84 million lifecycles before they can achieve SachKhand (Nirvana in Hindu/Buddhist terms).

* Moh,Labh,Kaam,Krodh and Hankaar are most definitely of a Hindu background,and not an Islamic one.I can't use the exact Sanskrit because I don't know it,but 3 of them 5 are the same in Sanskrit,two are different words.

* I thought you said you were from Moga district. PatoSingh pend or something like that you said.I know they're real close to each other,but anyways ... Minor point.

* You asked me why Hindu Panjabi Jats took to sikhi - I don't know.But,many didn't.One suggestion,apart from spiritual enlightenment,might be that they were shudre as hindus and "THE JATS" under sikhism. Soch la

* How is Karvachauth deprave ? Tuhaanu "Deprave" da matlab pata hai ? How is fasting deprave ? And if so, why do so many sikh ladies do it ?

* Slight digression - back to Malwa baatein - I've been doing a bit of research here.Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale was from Malwa right? Well, since '84 why has that Faridkot-Moga-Ferozepur region been a Congress party stronghold ? Khalistanis like SS Maan have managed to get votes etc from other regions on Panjab, but why are Jarnail Singh's areas so Congress-fied? To be precise the Brars (listed under "Prakash Badal - Sikh Traitor" thread) have used Faridkot as their consituency.And for 1 year,under Narismha Rao, Harcharan Singh Brar was the CM (but was changed when IK Gujral took over,and Rajinder Kaur Bhattal took over).
Can you as a Malwa Brar with Khalistani views offer an explanation ...


Thank You,
Tarun.

PS:- Eros de vare 'ch main ki dussah ? It's dirty. Mennu bilkul changa nahi lagda ... but the kuria I was with wanted to go there.So,I had to go along. But there is a lot of pulling and shit going along. Lot of kuria go there.It's mostly Guju and Paki though.'Cos at Gass there's Bhangra going on,and it's £3 to get in and £1 a shot for Tequila.So a lot of the sikh munde go Gass.But,there is a lot of dirty dancing,bumping n grinding and pulling on going on there.

What caste is jalota please

yol taj,

So that’s settled it then. I am glad that you have finally accepted the truth and the fact that your ancestry and history belongs to Hinduism. So please, never disown or disrespect your forefathers in future.

Have a nice life (whatever it may be as Hindu or a Sikh).

Manchester and North West Crew ,
Remember the beatings your badboy pakis got on Wilmslow Road by Indians after last years Indo-Pak game? Ask the guy in the National Halal Centre how he had to save some pakis life after he was kicked to within an inch of his life 'cos him and his pussy mates were trying to big up Pakistan to the wrong Indian boys ?

1st know who u r . r u ready?

Rampal
You said Sikhism is a branch of Hinduism;I smashed that theory to pieces as I did with AM's and T's fantasies about Sikh-Hindu bhai bhai and mutual sex orgies.

Yes our ancestors were sellout Hindus,but they converted after realising how true it was.Take care.

Yol you Luton paki pussies,

What is this? bury park crew, luton crew, paki crew, Manchester crew, does it take a whole fuckin army to immobilise before you can take on a single guy?

But then hey? we are talking about the Luton paki pussies here.

Later.

PS. Tell me when you are ready.

r u ready ?

heart pumping faster? mouth getting dry? heat and pins in the head?changing colour?

Taj,

Good to see that you have finally accepted that Sikhs were Hindus.

some feed back from the north manchester ways............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................it'l be out the hat very soon

T

1). Please explain why no-one in my extended as well as immediate families,here and back home do not indulge in corrupting false Hindu practices as you have mentioned like the depraved Karvachauth,save Rakhri and Diwali,the latter which Im made to accept for my cousin sisters sake and the former because of fireworks only!To be honest rakhri is total bullshit,why make a commitment to your sisters on one day of the year,when they deserve it for an entire lifetime.
2). Faridkot is where we are from and Holi is not celebrated by any of our pindus,and that also goes for all the other villages where members of our extended families are married or have roots,inc. Ferozepur,and my nankey in Ludhiana.T take a look at the long list of questions I posed to your fellow below and attempt to answer them.
3). The reason Sikhs do those Hindu practices are as I have explained,awry hormones and centuries of taking it up the ass;that should explain why a few genetically deformed Sikhs were hostile to the Great Sant,whose directions as a Sikh in his heroic life were pristine Sikhi and puritan,not Hinduistic.I shall leave open the question for you as to why our families do not indulge as Sikhism is good enough,and why are you so selective in your criticisms,mentioning only a few Hindu practices that you saw a few brain dead Sikh b_astards googling over and not the more extreme Hindu rawaaj as I have outlined in my earlier posts?
4). Sunny has explained that Parmar's book does not provide a plausible theory on the origins of the Jatts,which as has been rightly established is Massagetae tribe of the Scythian family of Central Asia,around Uzbekistan,Ural Mountains,the Oxus.Parmar if I am right on Sunny's post ignores the mass amount of evidence which attests to that fact,and he and Quanungo are the only people who have also offered another theory to account for the non-Aryans;compare that to the orthodox opposition.Jatts did become Hindu but you explain how we were never held down as 'sudra','malecchi','impure' etc. by the brahmanical system like they done to the lower caste Dravidians and ended up ruling North India under Raja Porus,Ashoka,Suraj Mal and the Mauryas,with our own culture and ways of thinking.I said didnt I the contempt the brahmins have held for the sellout Hindus we were;you should mingle in with these Rajputs,they are lallas right and proper.Read Dhillon's book,bloody amazing and damn right so.
5). You explain why Punjabi Hindu Jatts flocked in their 100,000s to become Sikhs and rejected Hinduism.Simple.
6). Islam and Sikhism have many many similarities,but so what,Christianity and Judiasm does too with these two religions.Funnily enough Islam means 'submission',to rid yourself of the false pride and ego and submit to Almighty Allah's will and love;Moh,Labh,Kaam,Krodh and Hankar are also have Islamic expression.But then again so what?The three religions are very different in many ways.How will you attempt to reconcile them?Remember Bharaio Mehl by Guru Nanak Dev Ji,'I am not a Hindu,I am not a Muslim etc.'Scroll down and see for yourself as that is good enough proof for any Sikh that we are a distinct religion;please let the Great Gurus speak for themselves.
7). Sikhism does have similarities with your religion,but on the issue of karma,we believe you can change it and escape the cycle of 1000s of transmigrations in life,and carve out your own destiny,unlike the brahmanical belief and caste system you adhere to so dearly.High caste Hindus can do whatsoever they want in this life as they will continue to be reborn brahmin in their next life,as will the other castes.Sikhism does not believe that,you reap what you sow.We dont believe in doing now what will be rewarded with a place in Heaven;we believe in creating a Heaven on Earth through devotion to the Almight and humanity;good deeds.As for Dasam Granth,it is believed to be corrupted by the brahmin bards and poets in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's court as some of the passages are written by lallas and we are only to follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji,not Dasam Granth;you tell me why did he outlaw idol,stone,animal,grave worship for Khalsa Sikhs in the Rehatnama and the punishment for breaking such laws is excommunication by the Panth and the Khalsa;it is on the same par as alcohol and drugs,adultery,shedding hair and not to eat ritual meat.You tell me why he said on his death,'The offspring of whosoever erects a monument in my name shall perish',and he described himself as an 'idol breaker' (if I recall correctly).I have read a quote from the GGS Ji which says 'idol worship is useless'.
8). The only thing Hindu with Sikhism is its' initial converts were Hindu who realised how stupid they were after all those centuries of wasted efforts and brain-drain thinking;the Gurus were born Hindu but rejected it totally from the moment they attained mukti;and yes there are slight similiarities,in terms of terminology and 1 or 2 like beliefs.But that is as far as it goes for me.Sikhism does not come from Hinduism otherwise please make provision for Islam in the equation;Sikhism can be said to have been heavily influenced by Sufism and has its' origins proper in this,but then again Sufi saints flocked to the Guru's side,case in point Guru Arjun Dev Ji.I prefer to live in denial rather than believe Sikhi is a direct descendant of Hinduism as Guru Nanak Dev Ji had to adopt some parts to deliver his unique divine message to the audience of the time.

Horr ferr,whats Eros saying,whats it like?Must have been plenty of Sikh slappers and dickheads,enough to enrich the coffers of the H 'P's.Take care.

yol ASD,

read your previous note, I think "siksh" is spelt "sikh".

You thick s h i t.

get ready son. bury park ask for Nigel dossier passed over

yol Arjun and Taj

I am afraid you are one of these people who don't know where you have come from, so how the f u c k do you know where you are going.

PLEASE, think about your roots properly and accurately. Much as you like to think your ancestry had nothing to do with the Hindu religion, the fact of the matter is it was 100% to do with being a Hindu.

I don't care if the jatt people originated from central Asia or the MOON, the basic fact of the matter is that they were Hindus. You seem to be happy to give a lecture on a 3000 years history but can’t accept something that has happened in the last 150 years or so. What sort of argument is that?

Also, your statement about every Christian and Muslims being a Jew is not true and very inaccurate. European and Eastern Middle East (Iraq, Iran, etc..) never practice the Jewish religion. The Eastern Middle Eastern countries practiced Zoroastrian and later took on Islam. The European adopted the Christianity and were never Jews. However, in contrast the Muslims in Pakistan and the Sikhs were Hindus.

So I am afraid you don’t speak for all us Hindus, Sikhs and Moslems, you only speak for yourselves and very inaccurately if I may say so.

So please go back to the basics before making wild statements next time (you thick s h i t s).

Later.

yol Luton pussies or pakies (or whatever you call yourselves, who cares its all the same).

Look I’ll tell you what I’ll wait outside, why don’t you bring some of your friends so that I can look at their ugly faces before I kick your fuckin ass.

You pussies.

we will have to see about that.Dont boast to your pals in luton.they happen to mention things.next time your in town we might say hello

Woah Woah Woah ... what's happening out here then ?

First and foremost to Taj,
Man,I can't be held accountable for every Tom,Dick and Harjit that surfs in on this site and disagrees with you/cusses you ! I've been busy this week - entertaining the ladies. Yes,Taj,it is always about the ladies ! Capital,Eros,Drome ... bhangra and that. Nach nach ke main thak gaya !!!!
Anyways - so,it's moved from Amrit to Rampal now ?! Cool ! Anyways - you've listed 10 reasons why sikhs have nothing to do with Hindus.
Aa le :-

1) Explain the customs of Rakhri/RakshaBandan and Karvachauth,and why sooo many sikhs do it.
2) The jatt argument is inaccurate. Jatts were definitely Hindu before they took to Sikhi. Even if BS Dhillon's theory is true, that would just knock off about a few hundred years of hinduism.They came and embraced it.According to Sunny Singh on another thread,who's read Parmar's "Jats,Their Migrations etc" (and I've put in an order for it),there are SEVERAL theories about Jats origins and Migrations.
3) I happened to be in Faridkot one Holi,and I saw Singhs going pagal chucking colours on everyone. Explain the sikh relations to Holi as well (and Faridkot is Malwa isn't it?)
4) I agree Sikhism and Hinduism are two separate religions.I don't doubt it,and I don't deny it.However,any sikh that says that there are no Hindu roots in the sikh religion is lying or in serious denial. Off the top of my head:- (I've only skimmed through both the Geeta and GGS) - Sikhs believe in Reincarnation (Hindu), 5 sins Moh,Labh,Kaam,Krodh and Hankar (Hindu), Sikhs believe in Kal Yug and the other Yugs (Hindu) also - The Dasam Granth.Apparently, at the start,all the Guru Gobind Singh ji talks about his Hindu Gods and some War story regarding Hindu Gods.

Taj,please please PLEASE,meherbani karke,stop assuming that I'm every single anonymous. I have my own thought,my own views and beliefs,and my own style of writing.I read up on a point,do my research and get back to whoever.

Anyways -

Luton Pakies,
OOOOOOOooooooohhhhhhhh I'm sooooo scared. Please don't scare me.

Laterz All,
Tarun.

rampal:

your arguments are about 100 years out of date. If Sikhs are hindus, then every mulsim and christian is a jew. please get an education---until then stay away--OK----and i think i speak for siksh, hindus and muslims alike.

arjun dhillon

To all you pakies out there

Lesson 1 - Basic History.

The same thing applies to you, that all you pakies were HINDUS, and again, just like the Sikhs, this the bottom line whether you like it or not, this is your ancestry and history.

later pakies.

Tarun , dont be stupid, you are getting under everyones skin. This is yourfinal warning, BEHAVE.
We are on to you!

Look taj my friend,

Let me explain, the basic fact of the matter is that you just can't accept that all you sikhs were HINDUS not long ago. This is the bottom line and I am afraid whether you like it or not this is your ancestry and history.

Have a nice day.

Rampal,no,sorry but you got your bodhi in a twist and jinoo tied around your small cock my lalla.I didnt say Sikhism is 3000 years old;I said the Scythians,ancient ancestors of the modern Jatts,migrated to India around that time.Of course all that white ass kissing you lallas are so accustomed to has made you go all haywire.So there really is no need for you to brag about any education because you do not have any,making slanderous claims against a religion you have no knowledge or information on;tell me,I have supplied facts and used them to back my arguments,but where are yours?You only have insults and empty posts to offer.I am totally clueless as to why you skinny weasly dark Hindu lallas never say this shit to our faces in the UK,I have plenty of you inbred b_astards under manners,so please enjoy a quiet day.Is it time for Shiva Linga yet?

yol, taj

I am afraid you have insulted your ancestors beyond belief by disowning them. This would never happen in the HINDU religion or in fact any other religion.

Some strange books you have read my friend, this fantasy that the Sikh religion is 3000 years old is laughable along with the rest of the info you have provided.

I think what you really need to do is go back to the basics and read some facts before going on the inter net making inaccurate and wild statements.

And I thought you sikhs were educated. Well I suppose everyone can be wrong sometimes

Any my friend don’t insult the HINDU religion, if you got a point to make it properly, otherwise I’ll have to repeat my previous phrase the fact that you have got your turban in a spin.

Later jat.

Rampal,or should I say Tarun 'T':

1). Since when have Sikhs taken cow dung as prasad?
2). Since when have Sikhs been known to pray to animals,such as rats and cows?
3). Since when was there an idol in any Gurdwara?
4). Since when do we practice Hindu rituals and customs,except those genetically deformed 'Sikhs' who set foot inside Mandirs to do those satanic practices,the offspring of Sikh-Hindu marriages,which pass on the defective genes that result from excessive inbreeding among Hindus with their sisters and nieces in accordance with the Hindu Pandvas tradition?That is a sound enough explanation for their wacky ways.
5). Since when have Sikhs ever married their nieces and sisters like some of Hindus do in some parts of North India?It happened recently in Himachal Pradesh in a Bahman Sharma family.Could that explain why Hindus are so murderous and fascist?
6). Since when were there any lewd,sexual,violent,racist and sexist contents in Sikhism like some of the Hindu scriptures?
7). If Sikhism was meant to 'reform' Hinduism,why havent you lallas converted now?Why havent Hindus still given up your freaked out ways?
8). Since when have Sikhs performed Shiva Linga?
9). How come no-one in my extended family as well as immediate never set foot inside a mandir or performed your countless rituals or idols?We never will.I have no idea what a mandir looks like on the inside.
10). On the subject of Sikh ancestors being ex-Hindus,my friend thats where it ends.Period.Their decision was bloody good I say,I couldnt be more approving and happy of that one.Its a fact that Jatts of Punjab never were Hindus in the absolute sense;they were originally Scythian people from Central Asia who migrated to India 600 years before Christ and became Hindu but only partially;they were known to be fierce meat eaters and drinkers,maintained their surnames and their culture independent and separate of the Brahmanical system,ruled North India for 700 years,never accepted the crap of the Hindus,esp. the bahmans,cursed them on their trips to Punjab to read us the riot act of Hinduism,their are accounts of bahmans travelling to Punjab and washing themselves on their return because of the 'impurity' of the Jatts for not following Hinduism to the tee,and even the Mahabharat has a passage similar to that as Ive heard.Sikhism is the only religion never forced on the Punjabis,esp. Jatts,it was not something they had to convert to through force or for convenience sake,but it was something that reflected their independent,just,republican character,and so that explains their mass flock to join Guru Gobind Singh Ji esp. in Malwa.Thank God I have no Hindu relatives.
11). Please read this passage from the Holy GGS Ji:
BHAIRAO MEHL:5

VRAT N REHO N HUM RUMDHANA||
(I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan. )

TIS SAVEE JOE RAKHAY NIDHANA||
(I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. ||1||)

EAK GHUSAI ALLAH MAIRA||
(The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.)

HINDU TURK DHUHA NABAIRA||1|| RAHAO||
(He adminsters justice to both Hindus and Muslims. ||1||Pause||)

HUJ KAABAY JHAO N THEERAT POOJA||
(I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. )

EAKO SAIVY AVER N DHOOJA||
(I serve the One Lord, and not any other ||2||)

POOJA KARO N NIVAJ GUJARO||
(I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.)

EAK NIRANKAR LAY RIDHAY NUMUSKARO||
(I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||)

NAA HUM HINDU, NAA MUSALMAN||
(I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim)
---(Guru Nanak Dev Ji) Guru Granth Shaib

Arjun M,if I had Punjab,you will not get a chance to 'raize' anything but I will skin your Sikh relations ass raw inc. your 'hottie' bhabhi,and you will die a worse death than one of our countless Sikhs killed by you Hindu b_astards.

Jai Laallian da kutta kaum.Death to Sikh-Hindu unity.

sikhism is just a small branch of the mainstream HINDU religion.

All you sikhs have to go back only few generations to find that all of you were HINDUS.

If you reject this statement then you all have no respect to your great grandparents, rejecting them and the believing that they ever existed. SHAME ON YOU, this would never happen in the HINDU religion.

So get your facts right before talk anymore s h i t.
I dare you, go on.

cooleejat,

good to hear from you, tell me what sort of name is cooleejat? Have you not got a proper name you dick head?

But, I have to give it you though, you are one f u c k i n g son of a bitch?

"Mahlotra - I go away for a few weeks and what do I see, Mahlotra trying to be Mr Nice guy!

Hey everyone this is a 17 year old uneducated fool - who thought this was a site to write fantasies about some white girl! Now he's trying to tell us sikism is a part of hinduism and commenting on Sant JSB, and making remarks on 'Kahlistan' Wah Ve Wah - everyone get up from your seats and give him a round of applause!

RAMPLE/Mahlotra, Im commin, Im commin to getcha you black biatch! Mein will be in Housten berry berry soon! you better have your Ak with ya, because without that your a small kuthey tha lun_d! "


So happy to see you. I thought you were gone. You're coming to Houston BERRY BERRY soon? Well I hope you have a BERRY BERRY good time avoiding your little "IMMIGRATION" problem. What the freak did you think I was gonna do about Khalistan, you dark monkey? Praise it? Hell no, bitch, RAZE it!! As for your "Sant", what the hell did you think I was gonna say, "Jai Bhindrawale"?

I just JEEVING to let them let you come to Houston. As for my gun, I don't need it for you. Bring your pals, and I'll bring mine.

Rampal,
what the •••• are you? You sound like a fuckin 7th grader.

What gulley in Bombay did this new Rampal cunt come from? You six-toed little slut, come to the US, and my dick will fuckin give you hole in your head.

And don't fuckin' insult no Sikh. I got Sikhs in my family, (even though I'm Hindu, I got the Sikhi blood in me). I'd fuckin have you running for the hills, you goddamn cake.

Rompole of the old bailey - before you make judgement,
i think i have the right to know what caste of HINDOO
you are, and then i can give you my answers to your
selfish questions.

yol, you bitches

There is so much s h i t on these web pages.

I repeat again not long ago all you sikhs we HINDUS and this goes for the pakis who have been f u c k e d by the arabs and converted to moslems.

All of you had to change your religion but we true HINDUs have been around for the last 5000 years. Unfortunately it is you who got all f u c k e d and conquered.

I don't care if the shiks want to join with the moslems, who gives a f u c k. I dare you, go on.

Think again, and this time proper, but then why should you? Its not in your nature. All you do is talk s h i t.

later losers (or should I say who got f u c k e d and conquered).

PS. Gang*SP s h i t! what the f u c k are you going to do? I’ll tell you what, you are going to f u c k yourself before you can say anything intelligent.

Rampal mein terri maa changi thra chodhi.Kutti hajjey vi daperrey hi paonkdi ya.Mein odhi Hindu phuddi parran.

yol, Gang*SP

I am so scared. Listen I'll tell you what I'll wait for you outside.

When you come, can you bring some of your little friends with you, bacause I like to see their ugly faces before I kick your f u c k i n g ass.

GANG*SP s h i t, what sort of stupid name is that?
Is that you cooleejat boy?

yol, cooleejat,

Where are you these days?

Have you changed your name?

If you have, you are one cleaver son of a b i t c h.

later cooleejat.

yol, you bitches

There is so much s h i t on these web pages.

I repeat again not long ago all you sikhs we HINDUS and this goes for the pakis who have been f u c k e d by the arabs and converted to moslems.

All of you had to change your religion but we true HINDUs have been around for the last 5000 years. Unfortunately it is you who got all f u c k e d and conquered.

I don't care if the shiks want to join with the moslems, who gives a f u c k. I dare you, go on.

Think again, and this time proper, but then why should you? Its not in your nature. All you do is talk s h i t.

later losers (or should I say who got f u c k e d and conquered).

PS. Gang*SP s h i t! what the f u c k are you going to do? I’ll tell you what, you are going to f u c k yourself before you can say anything intelligent.

You Morons(Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims)..are all suffering from "Colonial Hangover"...fighting over religion , bragging about who has bigger dicks ..whose gurus and daeities are stronger..bitching over the Khalistan issue...dumbass egomaniacs.I wonder how many hindus on this newsgroup have adopted kids of Hindu pandits killed in Kashmir and how many "brave sikhs" have adopted kids of sikh families killed in 1984..You should all be ashamed..ans as far as the pakistanis ..you guys have 4 brain cells in the whole country..and by the way AIDS, hunger, famine and a NUCLEAR holocaust is not going to discriminate against hindu , sikh or muslim..You guys make me sick.....

You Morons(Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims)..are all suffering from "Colonial Hangover"...fighting over religion , bragging about who has bigger dicks ..whose gurus and daeities are stronger..bitching over the Khalistan issue...dumbass egomaniacs.I wonder how many hindus on this newsgroup have adopted kids of Hindu pandits killed in Kashmir and how many "brave sikhs" have adopted kids of sikh families killed in 1984..You should all be ashamed..ans as far as the pakistanis ..you guys have 4 brain cells in the whole country..and by the way AIDS, hunger, famine and a NUCLEAR holocaust is not going to discriminate against hindu , sikh or muslim..You guys make me sick.....

Mahlotra - I go away for a few weeks and what do I see, Mahlotra trying to be Mr Nice guy!

Hey everyone this is a 17 year old uneducated fool - who thought this was a site to write fantasies about some white girl! Now he's trying to tell us sikism is a part of hinduism and commenting on Sant JSB, and making remarks on 'Kahlistan' Wah Ve Wah - everyone get up from your seats and give him a round of applause!

RAMPLE/Mahlotra, Im commin, Im commin to getcha you black biatch! Mein will be in Housten berry berry soon! you better have your Ak with ya, because without that your a small kuthey tha lun_d!

Anon
These lallas always look to us when they fight kalley and muslims and its about time we broke the mould of sikh-hindu bhai bhai.If youre in UK you'll know its all SP's bloody fault that muslims get casted but oh no look at the lalley mahi yaavey under our noses,no tears hey.They are full of shit that muslims and Islam are bad and not them,trying to get us to scream by saying their name hoping we wont notice them.I didnt know their were Muslim Jatts and I am Jatt and willing to embrace them.You see what is happening in Kashmir is happening back home in Punjab.Our concerns are only against Islamic extremists.

Rample/ASM, not long ago all the mutha fukin hindu's would have been muslims!

now sikhs came to the rescue then, but don't count your chickens before they have hatched! You guys are never gonna get any support from me, you will need us again sometime and gonna be scrounging at our feet begging for help and you know what, we're gonna boot you guys in your teeth. Only then you will appreciate what the sikhs have done for you!

Rampal = A Mahlotra

arjun, coolijat

khalistan......

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.......

yol, Arjun,

Are you that stupid guy in Texas walking around with a gun.

Do you know what to do with that gun, or do you put it between your legs in your trouser so that you can pretend you got a big dick?

later.

coolijat

You thick s h i t.

Dream on about khalistan. It will never happen. no one wants it except little coolijat like you.

Not long ago you were all HINDUs anyway. sikhism is just a small branch of the HINDU religion.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......

rampal or whatever you are:

maybe you have a tight wad in your dhoti---thats for mocking turbans my dear hindu---a turban is part of sikh culture----do not mock it.

ASD

Taj

I am afraid you have got your turban in a spin.

Get it right next time you little boy.

cooljat:

I am afraid guns are a disgusting part of the american culture cooljat

peace
arjun dhillon

Thanks for the info ASD, Malhotra loves bigging up
his EGO behind computer screens, ive told him before
lets get in the RING - the hardest place in the
WORLD, and do this in a legal manner, but since hes
a YANKEE, he loves pulling out his unloaded GUN, i
bet he ain't even got the strengh to pull the trigger,
so i ain't too worried about his empty threats.

We were just reminding him how nice it would be to
have a place called KHALISTAN - a place where sikhs
can glow - as NEHRU said.

to malhotra, taj, cooljat:

do you gentlemen realize you can be prosecuted for threats (especially involving guns malhotra) over the net----be careful what you all say.


arjun dhillon