To dhillon, his theories and other jats,

As usual, lots of long contradictory theories and arguments again.

#1 "so how on earth does everything become a "hindu" achievement"
I have given credits to Jains and Buddists. And true muslims in India built cities and great monuments. So please read things properly before answering.

#2 "Jats spread to rule N.INDIA"
Every dominant ruling force has left their mark in India. But for the Jats they have no legacy in terms of monuments, manuscript, religion and yet you say the Jats were so dominant and ruled N India. So what happed? Could they not be bothered with anything? Did they just forget? Did they not have the skills? Or were they just fiercely drinking and eating meat all this time? Lets face it just does not add up does it.
In comparison the Jains with population of about 4 million (today) I believe, have left their legacy and you will find many Jain temples, manuscript and other artifices.
So your argument about being small in % does not hold.

#3 "compare apples and oranges"
You say Jats tiny % of the over all population and therefore cannot be compared with others in terms of achievements. Yet these posting on these pages have implied that Jats had hand in every significant event in Indian history. Now that’s more closer to comparing apples with oranges.

#4 "There wasn’t even a faith called Hinduism until the modern era"
Now this is where your theories starts becoming just jokes. Any normal person will tell you that Hinduism has been round for 3000 - 4000 years. And there is enough scientific and concrete in terms of manuscripts temples and monuments. So I don’t know where you get your facts from. The only thing modern is Sikhism.

#5 "The Jat blood achieved greatness in many nations, including Germany"
Who are you trying to fool eh! This argument has no value, what proof do you have here? And even if we take your argument, history is all about migration, conquest and absorption, so the even if we take your argument and say there was a tiny1% (reflecting the small Jat population as you say) of Jat blood in Germans, what about the other 99%. Dosen’t that count? I think you are just fooling yourself and insulting your intelligence with this sort of argument. Again its just wild little theories in your mind that has no meaning. So you really need to delete this as one of your 500 theories.


Lets face it Jats were a nomadic fighting tribe who were not interested in literature, religion, science or culture, until Sikhism came along few hundred years ago. It still baffles me that people claiming to have a strong sense of history and identity you took up religion after all this time.

With respect to the modern Gandhis, sure every politician is corrupt and the events of the 80s were tragic consequences, and we all agree that in the aftermath Sikhs murdered Delhi and other parts of India did not get protection or justice from the Indian Government. And this is a sad chapter in Indian history.
However, may Sikhs talk about this but not about the killing of the many innocent Hindus by the fanatics? And lets not fool ourselves here, if the roles were reversed, where armed Hindu militants were hiding in a Temple and operating a Sikh killing machine, a Sikhs would have no hesitation of using armed force.


Finally, you Jats just can’t accept that it was a Hindu, the Mahatma Gandhi, that led India to independence (sure every one sacrificed their lives including Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus during the independence struggle, so don’t flatter yourself here. What counted in the end was the his skills that united people to achieve the final objective). I am afraid its just something that you will have to learn to live with it. So yet again, in the face of whole world recognising Gandhi’s achievements, the Jats, as usual completely ignorant and dismiss it and say it never happened (somehow it does not surprise me as some of you Jats have not even heard of Albert Einstein, how low can you get).

Right,this is taking the f.ing piss.First you Hindu bastards came here and made jokes about Khalistan and the genocide;then it was our earnings,nice to see you care;then it was our women;now the most serious unforgivable insult of all,Darbar Sahib and The Guru Granth Sahib Ji.Do you sister screwers have a life?Are we on your mind that much?

Well you bastards,if any one of your countless blue skinned half naked thousand arms animal idols,prophets,saints,rishis,yogis,sadhus were to return today they'd hunt you motherfuckers down and string you up by the balls.Im so tempted to swear at your idols.Any restraint will be waived upon the next insult by Gai Hind and other and then you'll be begging to meet me.

Its never fair is it,always OK for Hindus to mass murder and rape minorities,to be given the credit for everything,to reinvent history and fact,to trash places of worship,to get away with everything,to insult people's faiths,to call whoever falls out of favour 'terrorists','communalists','extremists'etc.

Just before Bluestar,in Panipat,Haryana Hindus burned down two Gurdwaras,burned the GGS Ji,battered Sikhs to death.In the train station,Hindus smashed photos of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji who laid his life for the Kashmiri pandits.In the Delhi riots,again the same happened,Bangla Sahib,but on an even more gross horrific scale.There is the oh so funny 12 o clock joke,the time when the brother Singhs fought bravely to free Hindus on the expeditions of outsiders and look at the credit we get,a joke.I hate every single Hindu with a vengeance.You are all targets from now on.

Now you bastards,Im going to post some bloody shameful facts about your religion and I want you to answer them,since you Hindu lalley mahasha know everything and have reading problems.You wish to enter this territory,bring it on.Im ready.I never leave an insult to my religion unanswered.

Hindu son of a whore,talk big behind a PC,come out in the open you Panja Pandvas sister screwer.
.Where did I say Jatts made India?
.Where did I say Jatts are more important than India?
.Where did I say Jatts are the bomb?

All I ever said was,
.Jatts originate from a central Asian Scythian tribe known as Massagetae,who resided in Uzbekistan,the Altai mountains and the Oxus.
.Jatts were very lax and careless Hindus and still maintained an independent culture of their own.
.Sikhism doesnt come from Hinduism,but you come out of my chittar.Now its time for me to shove you back up in there.

You have had every one of your questions answered extensively and yet you ask the same questions again,either out of thin air,the very same answers,or your momma's ass.I will not be answering your questions ever again,but I will do so personally.

Check:
.Delhi was founded by Dhillon Jatts.
.North India was ruled by Jatts for more than 700 years,at one point for 500 years undisturbed.
.The Lion symbol on the Indian currency is the seal of Ashoka,Jatt.

That is the last Im saying.
As for the post on facts about India,good.I dont care if they are true or false.Punjab is good enough for me,and so will be your sister.

.Tell me why do Hindus gang up in their thousands with Police and Army protection and murder,rape and pillage innocent people?
.Why do you hide behind security forces and tanks?
.Why did you do that to dislodge a few pendu's from Amritsar?
.Why do you always use the expendable Sikh and Madrasi regiments for the most dangerous missions?
.Why do you guys wet your pants in front of me?

I want to meet you you son of a whore.
Again Gay Hind and Hindu,Im leaving my e-mail and I want your addresses and any other Hindu who wants his teeth smashed in.

JAI HIND IS GAY HIND>

A CLOSET GAY AS ARE ALL HINDUS>

GAY HIND IS COMING OUT AFTER KNOWING ALL MENS BODIES>

DOCTORS WOU:LD NOT EVEN DO AN AIDS TEST ON HIM>HAHA

AS FOR HINDU>YEP THATS TARUN OKAY>

MAKING UP HISTORY AS THEY GO>

LIKE GANDHIS WERE BRAHMINS WHEN ALL THE TIME THEY WERE NOT>HAHAH>

AND IF YOU ARE SO SMART>HOW COME HALF THE HINDUS ARE LIVING ON PAVEMENTS WITH NOTHING ON THE BACKS OR THEIR BELLIES??

AND THE OTHER HALF IS LIVING IN ONE ROOM SHACKS IN SHANTy TOWNS IN YEH THE BIG CITY>

NOT SO CLEVER EVEN AFTER HAVING A HEAD START OF A FEW THOUSAND YEARS?HAHA>

WHY ARE TAMIL HINDUS

COULD IT BE THAT THEU KNOW THAT HINDUS ARE SLIMY?

YEP>

LAST....THE INDUS VALLEY CIVILATION DUMBY IS PUNJABI AND A PAKISTANI LEGACY>

SO HINDUS GAVE ZERO TO THE THE WORLD CEPTING HINDUS LIKE GAY HIND>HAHA

HOW CAN THEY GIVE TO ANYBODY WHEN THEY CANT KEEP BODY AND SOUL TOGETHER THEMSELVES>

SAVE YOUR BREATHE TARUN/HINDU FOR OTHER DUMBY HINDUS LIKE YOU>

HINDU SON OF A WHORE,GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS.

to hindu:

You bad mouth jats a lot and throw a lot of blind history around. I dont know enough about ancient Jat history to argue here, nor am i interested.

You say Jats have contributed nothing. Suffice it to say, that Jats are part of a far flung indo-european dispersion which occured around 100 bc to 100 AD---they spread all over asia and the europe. So you could safely say that their blood achieved greatness in many nations. The Goths (Goth is a derivative of gatae and so is Jat) conquered Germany and then Rome---Rome had a GOTH EMPEROR (i think his name was Odacer). So lets just take one nation--Germany, which was settled by the Goths---now you know I can reel off 10 great Germans in a minute---and that just one country the JATS/goths took---think of russia, eastern europe, iran et etc etc etc. JAT BLOOD FORMED THE RULING FAMILIES OF MANY NATIONS--INCLUDING INDIA.


The Jats who came to India were not the most cultured people, i grant you that, and compared to the more gentle existing hindus, they probably were quite "rough" people. But we know from respected historians that they did spraed their rule over N.INDIA----so you see "a hindu" its possible some jat is in your ancestry.

you compare apples and oranges. On the one hand you take credit for everything in india as being "hindu" somehow and pit that against jat achievement (jats are a tiny % of india). Well from what i know of indian history, india is really not one culture and many different races, with many invasions---so how on earth does everything become a "hindu" achievement. There wasnt even a faith called hinduism until the modern era---just a loose collection of sects with some common themes but mostly based around local worship--such as snakes, trees, a particular local god etc.

Its interesting you claim buddha---his faith was slandered and driven out of india by those bastard brahmins. You claim Gandhi---that cunning little bania fooled the west but we Sikhs know a different side to him---dont we---do do his grand-nieces apparently..

By the way, Al JABBAR was an arab mathematican.


Arjun dhillon

To the dumb taj and aother similar jats

Wrong again as usual

Algebra, developed in 5th Century in India, it is a short-hand method of calculation and by this feature it scores over conventional arithmetic. This was adapted by the Muslims and given the name 'Al-Jabr' meaning 'the reunion of broken parts'. 'Al' means 'The' & 'Jabr' mean 'reunion'. This name given by the Arabs indicates that they took it from an external source.

Next time stick to know what you know best (i.e. drinking, eating meat, murder, rape and M/F (you seem to know a lot about the latter that you must have experience it, maybe lots of it)).

PS. The only thing you have not said is that a Jat has been to the moon, when is that coming? so the whole world can have a good laugh. Please don’t miss your opportunity to show that you are complete illiterate pratt.

PPS. The Jats have developed nothing thats worth to the human race. I can see that you are real proud of this achievement.

To the dumb taj and other similar jats.

I think you have missed the point (again); obviously you need some education (did you ever go to school?). And its nothing to about distorting the history as you claim, the usual Jat or Sikh claim.

If you read some proper history books you will understand that the Indus civilisation began over 5000 years ago (that is 3000 BC if you are getting confused with numbers). This is backed up by scientific carbon dating evidence (not like Dillhons wild imagination notes) that the first known examples of writing have been unearthed at an archaeological dig in around the Indus region and markings have been found on fragments of pottery there. By 4000 years ago (that’s 2000 BC to you) the Indus civilisation began to expand around the Indus river. The Hindu religion began and flourished about same time in the region; and the Indus civilisation began to expand around the Indus river and extended to areas what is now Punjab and Rajeshthan.

So even if you take your best wild shot theory that the nomadic Jats arriving in India at the time of Christ, so I am afraid you are still 2000 years out. So there is nothing distorting about history, its just very simple mathematics.

So don’t flatter yourself by thinking that the nomadic Jats developed the Indus civilisation! Or is this the same old story that you make up your history as you go along.

And we all know why people migrate from one region to another, because they have nothing where they live and everything to gain by migrating. This probably was the main reason for the nomadic Jats (that is if your wild theory is right) to come to India, to gain from a developed culture. I can understand that.

Also, you will find that there were no Jats scientist and mathematicians during the great age of discovery (in contrast, you will find Janis and Buddhist) and Sanskrit originated from southern India (so you can count your Jat theory out here).

So I think you really need to read and understand things properly before you reply.

Finally, lets not forget, the ancient Hindu India never needed anything from the world, it had its own culture and wealth, it was the desperate people with who needed knowledge and/or wealth, likes the Jats (again based on your theory about migrating Jats), the Muslims and other invaders that came to India for a free ride, and I am afraid thats what the Jats have, nothing but lots of theories (see Dhillon on this).

The Jats have developed nothing thats worth to the human race. Now that takes some effort but you Jats seems to have the mastered the skills in this. Congratulations to you and may you continue with your success for the next 10000 years.

PS. Anyway if you don't like India why don't you go back to Central Asia, the Jews created Israel and went back after 2000 years. Whats stopping you? I'll tell you what, a lot of hot air.

PSS. With respect to the authors, you say that Jats never heard of authors like Albert Einstein?, Well we can all understand that as its you and really can’t blame you for your ignorance (the normal Jat thing to do when confronted with facts).

Jai hind:
the filth against Sikh women you are saying and your hatred of sikhs will fall on you and your fellow hindus. You can be prosecuted for internet threats----but no need---if you ever tried to "rape" a sikh woman which you claim is sick wish, she would probably tear your spine out thru your foul mouth.


Taj:
You are portraying a very dark world---channel your anger appropriaely and constructively.


To all: This thread is about the adi granth and it has become a horror---mainly thru hindus spreading hatred and then sikhs retaliating in kind. So all hindus with no interest in the granth, why dont you go to sites where you can spew all the filth you want. As for the sikhs, dont let the hindu triublemakers get to you.


Arjun dhillon

taj,what u have done is very unsikh.that is sick.to attack a man for no reason is wrong.to attack some1 or something weaker is wrong.for lots of u 2 attack 1 hindu on his own is both wrong and sick.u r no diffrent from the hindu policemans who commited attrocities against sikhs in the eigthies.u might have pugree and beard,but u r long way away from being a gursikh.u r messed up in the head.u beating up a hindu wont help the sikh quam 1 bit.just igve it a bad naam even more.big thank u taj u've just made us look bad again.4get in our mat we talk of singhs being like guru gobind singhs sant sipahi-saint soldier.guru gobing singh would have turned in his grave knowing what u did.what u did was neither saint like nor soldier like.sick sick sick.apologsie 4 u did if u have any sikh in u.

Jai Hind I will appreciate you giving me your address and Ill show you what happens.

oi sardar,weve been raping ur women for the last 15 years.so u beat 1 hindu up - big ••••••• deal.we trashed your temple.we pissed on ur books and burnt ur guru's books up. hee hee.

Hindu MF

'Algebra, trigonometry and calculus came from India.'

Bollocks.Algebra came from Al Jabbar,an arab and Tipu Sultan fired the first successful missile.

Today was the greatest day I have ever had,once again I proved myself.Me and my friends bumped into this Hindu rat worshipping cow s_hit eating son of a whore whose 3 front teeth I broke off several years ago.He swore at my pugh and I offered him a fight on my doorstep.And would you believe it,the other Sikhs in my year stood by and did nothing.He was a bit bigger than me at the time but now he's nothing compared.Anyway,he got a good seeing to,he was begging for mercy.Afterwards we patched things up.Needless to say,I was very hyper when I saw him.We talked and then parted.But we followed him,and within 5 minutes we jumped the Hindu and I think we may have left him for dead.Bottles,kicks in the head with heavy boots,black eyes,blood,you name it.We have never been so excited.I must say we did get carried away and he was seriously bleeding.I unzipped my trousers and pissed on his face and said loudly,'Drink that as a spiritual ailment!Now say Jai Hind'!And he did but I continued stamping on his head anyway.The noise of the impact everytime I hit his head have left me edgy.I am really vexed though because we didnt have a machete or other as I would have carved a khanda on his face.I dont think he knows it was us as it was so sudden and quick.
Then we drove away and passed my cousin's Hindu whore's house.Again we needed an adventure at the expense of these rat worshippers and returned with a can of petrol and a baseball bat,and lets just say her BMW is more than mince meat.

Tomorrow Im going to spray 'Hindu bastards' on the wall outside the local mandir,and we're going to jump another guy if Im hyper and psycho.We're going to go to a gig pretty soon and you watch some poor Hindu get selected for punishment.Did you guys know a H'P' called Noddy was crushed to death in a car chase outside a club in Nottingham in September?Funnily enough it was Sikh boys who done to him,so its just the case of one less Hindu in the world.And Rajinder Kaur Desi from Southall had acid thrown in her face by her ex-Hindu Raja,Krishnan Rai for dumping him.Slappers never learn do they.

T,you can look at it another way;maybe because we Jatts are so handsome,Yadav slags came running to us,but no thanks,though we are very flattered.T,which Sikhs actually hang around with you and yet they know you say these things.T,Ive got to hand it to you,there was no anti-Hindu feeling here before you landed and no-one here likes you,except AKB who has been raped by her H'P' uncle.Youve had people come here who say they know you and threatened you to keep your mouth shut or else.Man you must be really popular.I want to thank you for making me see the light as to the ugliest b_astard race ever.

If I had this country as my domain,I would let loose the nigger poonds and their rapists on Hindu girls.There would be so much f.ing,the bloodline of these Hindus would change forever.Or if I had AIDS,I would sleep and rape as many Hindu girls as possible to pass the virus on.But whats the use in complaining,9 million Hindus already have HIV in India.

Hindu,it was because of the Jatts the Chinese put up the Great Wall.Also we stopped Alexander in his tracks.Also the richest Asian in the world is Sanjiv Singh Sandhu,a Jatt,CEO of 12 Technologies in Texas,USA,worth 12 billion dollars.In Time magazine,a Mann was named as one of the smartest men in the world.As Sikhs,Jatts and non-Jatts of Punjab saved the Hindu Punjabi's from the marauding Mughals and in the surrounding areas as a good estimate.Also,the leading government posts held by Asians in Canada and USA are by Sikhs,some of them Jatts.Nice post,so what else is new.Also,Im gonna be the one to rape your mother and sister and break every one of your fingers.I want your address.Im leaving my e-mail.

Peace to all the Sikhs;Hinduan di maa di phuddi paro.

a hindu./tarun
talking rot again.and talking cheap fiction.never mind .sweet dreams.the indus valley by the way---exactly where is that------------need reminding?

are you really so thick.must admit admit i never realised how much.the authors you mention are known to you and max. to indians.of coz carry on, ignore the distortion of history as per the gandhis orgins.thats a classic example of rubbish for ya.hindu rubbish swallowed wholesale in this modern,educated age.

they probably cant list there own family backgrounds let alone anyone elses.

the authors dhillon lists are renouned and from all nations,modern,classical etc.and thats the way it is.no if ands or buts.you will just have to learn to live with your phobia about us.there is no chance that you will see the light.there are none so blind as those who will not see.

have a nice day all sikhs,all punjabis.

Various,

Tu ki karooga ?

A JAT,

He should sticking to playing around with test tubes rather than chart "fictious" history.3 HISTORIANS/ ARCHAEOLOGISTS (Quanungo,Pawar,Ram Narayan) have said contrary. (<-- that's good enough for me).

Tarun.

Tarun

Its been a very good day so far!

firstly, I wasn't commmentting on that fore fathers bullshit you came out with.... well Not yet!

I was commenting on your genral selfish ignorant ego filled self!

now i'll just remind you of my previous post!

Back to Tarun - He is a shit stirring hindu black ass and has crossed the line big time.

FYI im a ramgahria sikh, not that it makes a difference. Sikh for Sikhs only!

To dihllon, taj, cootjat and other jats

So what would you say is Jats major contribution to the world?

I mean if the history is old as you say then there must be at least 10 items you can list which has shaped the modern world.

Talk is cheap, now lets see facts.

b.s.dhillon is a chemist or engineer but he is an educated individual who has given over 500 references meaning authors of books who have written up on jats,thru the ages.that means from thousands of years ago.

so jats have been traced thru history and location over thousands of years..so its nothing new.jat history is recorded.indian athors can make muslim indira into hindu indira and all the non indian gandhis into so called brahmins.give us a break!pull the other one.

on india talk ,a non punjabi hindu said that if the whites can send men to the moon and back,chart every nook in the world,then they are capable of charting a race of people thru history.

the thing about jat history is that it was written of at the times in question and by every nationality and religion and thru the same areas of which we speak.you have to deaf,dumb and blind to think jats are anything but different to the rest.

good day.

INDIAN and HINDU civilisation’s contribution to the world.

To dihllon, taj, cootjat and others (malhotra you probably won’t understand this as it does not have any swear words in it) who may have forgotten the history of India and the Hindu civilisation and its contribution to the world.

Read it if you want to understand the facts otherwise close your eyes and follow what ever beliefs you have.

If you do read it and get to the end, ask yourself one question, what sort of quality do you need you need to achieve this (certainly not fierce meat eating and drinking)?.

THE FACTS

#0 Indus Valley Civilization (circa 2500-1700BC), earliest known civilization of South Asia, corresponding to the Bronze Age cultures of ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, and Crete (Kríti). The remains of settlements belonging to this culture have been found throughout the Indus River. The Indus Valley civilization encompasses one of the largest geographical areas covered by a single Bronze Age culture. India, which traces its civilization back 5,000 years

#1 Hindu civilisation has been the site for significant historical and philosophical developments intermeshed with several facets of scientific and technological activities. Recent excavations at Kalibangan (Rajasthan) and Lothal (Gujarat) have underlined the singular achievements of this period in history, especially in the spheres of town planning and building of houses using standard burnt bricks, interlinked drainage system, wheel - turned ceramics, solid wheel carts and the use of copper and bronze in various products.

#2 The human spirit in Ancient India has given to the world, the values of non-violence, religious tolerance, renunciation along with many elements of knowledge in fields like production technology, mechanical engineering, architecture, civil engineering, medical science, physics, chemistry, logic, astronomy, mathematics and so on. Other examples of elements of material culture and civilization that originated in ancient India and which the world owes to the genius of ancient Indian scientists.

#3 Sanskrit is the mother of all the European languages. Sanskrit is the most suitable language for computer software - a report in Forbes magazine, July 1987.

#4 The Vedas (treatises on knowledge from ancient India, which embodies the true spirit of humanness expressed, not today, but four thousand years ago). It is this spirit of humanness that has been the undercurrent of existence in a part of the world known by many names like Aryavarta, Jambudwipa, Bharatvarsha, Hindustan or India.
This spirit has also prevailed in many other parts of the world where the right thinking of humankind has prevailed. In India, this spirit has found expression in the philosophy of non-violence, religious tolerance, renunciation - in non-temporal matters. chievements which did not remain limited to India alone, but were transmitted to many corners of our globe.

#5 Buddhism originated in India and preached non-violence towards all living beings It exercised a sobering influence over a large part of Far East (Korea and Japan) and Central Asia (China) and South East Asia.

#6 The arc-shaped Himalayas extend along the entire northern boundary of India and carve just as far across the Indian subcontinent as they do deeply into the life around them. The term "Himalaya" -- a Sanskrit word meaning "the Abode of Snow" -- was coined by the Hindu pilgrims who traveled in these mountains in ancient times.

For centuries, the inhabitants of India have been fascinated by this mountain chain. The feeling is a mixture of admiration, awe and fear; and for the Hindus of India, the Himalayas are also "the Abode of God". There are numerous pilgrim routes that have brought the Hindu pilgrims to these mountains since time immemorial.

#7 One of the most enduring symbols of Hindu is the figure of Shiv Nataraj or the dancing Shiva. Shiva's cosmic dance is believed to encompass creation, preservation, and destruction and this idea has been embedded in Hindu thought and ritual since the dawn of civilisation.

#8 Indian mathematicians and astronomers have contributed immensely to the fundamental concept of celestial science. The discovery of coins and concrete evidence of maritime trade indicate a definite level of excellence in the fields of mathematics, geometry and astronomy.

#9 Hindu's mastery of the science of pure mathematics goes back to ancient times. It is generally acknowledged that the concept of zero, crucial to the development of the science, is India's contribution to the world, which was given to Europe through the Arabs. Zero was invented by Aryabhatta.

#10 The development of the Zero on which ultimately rests the binary code which has given us all software including the WWW through which you are accessing this site!

#11 The decimal systems and positional systems are quite ancient. The union of the two, together with a fully functional zero digit, is quite recent however. Perhaps around 300 AD the Hindus introduced a fully functional zero in a decimal positional system. They called their zero "sunja". It means empty space. When the notion spread to Baghdad perhaps around 600 AD the named shifted to the Arabic "sifr" which again means empty space. In Medieval Latin it became "ciphra". The Latin entered Middle English as "siphre" which eventually became "cypher" in English and "cipher" in American.
The word "ciphra" also evolved to signify the whole decimal positional number system. To this day integers are referred to as "cyphers" in English, though the usage is not common in American. With "ciphra" taking on a new more general meaning, a word derived from it, the Medieval Latin "zephirum" or "zepharino", came to be used to denote zero. This word eventually entered English as "zero".

#12 In the Ganita Sara Samgraha, 850 A.D., Mahaviracharya, the greatest Jain mathematician mentions the significance of zero. In the fifth century BC Brahmagupta became the first mathematician to solve the Pellian equation.

#13 A century later, Aryabhatta arrived at the most accurate value of the mathematical constant, Pi, in the Gitikapada.

#14 The Bakhsali manuscript, written in the third or fourth century BC, on 72 leaves of birch bark, is an exclusively mathematical text that presents rules, illustrated instances and solutions to geometric, algebraic and arithmetical problems.

#15 In the Kalpasutras, penned in 290 BC, Bhadrabahu solved the Pythagorean theorem.

#16 Calculation of eclipses in a text called, Pancha-Siddhantika dated around
the 5th Century A.D.

#17 The art of Navigation was born in the river Sindh 6000 years ago. The very word Navigation is derived from the Sanskrit word 'NAVGATIH'. The word navy is also derived from Sanskrit 'Nou'.

#18 Bhaskaracharya calculated the time taken by the earth to orbit the sun hundreds of years before the astronomer Smart. Time taken by earth to orbit the sun: (5th century) 365.258756484 days.

#19 The value of "pi" was first calculated by Budhayana, and he explained the concept of what is known as the Pythagorean Theorem. He discovered this in the 6th century long before theEuropean mathematicians.

#20 Algebra, trigonometry and calculus came from India. Quadratic equations were by Sridharacharya in the 11th century. The largest numbers the Greeks and the Romans used were 106 whereas Hindus used numbers as big as 10**53(10 to the power of 53) with specific names as early as 5000 BCE during the Vedic period. Even today, the largest used number is Tera 10**12(10 to the power of12).

#21 The Gumbaz that we see on mosques all over the world originated as the interlocking dome in the "Stupa" of the Buddhist architectural tradition of India.

#22 Indian shows splendour of Indian temple architecture has been immortalised into granite. This was achieved through the highest level of skill required by stone masons.

#23 In the field of medicine and surgery, Charak Samhita and Sushrita, classics on Ayurveda are acknowledged as important milestones of the sixth century BC. As far as metallurgy was concerned, according to the Rasvatnakar, the very first batch of zinc to be distilled by man took place around 50 BC in Zawar, Rajasthan. The mastery of Madhuchusta Vidhanam or the lost wax process, led to the grand Chola bronze coins during 800 - 1400 AD.

#24 Dating from the Vedic period, the Neem plant is considered to be very auspicious, not only for it's medicinal values, but also for it's use in religious rites. Neem is also revered for it's unmatched use as a biologically sound pesticide and an air purifier. The magical properties of the neem have now been revealed to the world.

#25 The dowry system was originally created in the days when Hindu women had no right to inheritance by law. This was the only way parents could insure that her daughter would have some property of her own. Even her husband had no claim on this property. Today, in some community the dowry system is misused by husband’s parent extort money out of the bride’s family.

#26 The technique of manufacturing crystal (sugar)cane sugar (the word sugar is derived from the Sanskrit term "Sharkara").

#27 The making of camphor (this word is derived from the Sanskrit root word "Karpuram" according to the Oxford Dictionary).

#28 The making of tin (the technical English word for tin is Cassiterite which is said to have been derived from the Sanskrit term "Kasthira").

#29 The making of dyes like Anline and Indigo (the word Indigo comes from the term India and the word Anline is derived from the Arabic term An Nil which is derived from the Sanskrit term Neelam, according to the Oxford dictionary).

#30 YOGA: The ancient Hindu system of mental and physical exercise is practiced the world over. The belief that yoga can improve one's health and peace of mind, has prompted thousands of foreigners to try it out.

#31 Yoga is highly relevant in the modern day context. With tension and stress becoming a part of our daily life ‘Yoga’ enables us to achieve self-realistion in a systematic manner. By helping the union of the body with the mind and the mind with the soul, it creates the ultimate symphony of life. Different forms of yoga i.e. -Hatha yoga, Raja yoga, Karma yoga, Bhakti yoga, Jnana yoga, Mantra yoga and Laya yoga- provides the finest system of education and brings out the best in a person

#32 Ayurveda in Sanskrit means "the science of Life". It is an ancient, unfailing system of treatment based on medicines prepared from herbal plants found in abundance in India. Ayurveda is an integral part of the people of India. This ancient knowledge system of medicine has gained global acceptance especially for alternative ways of preventive, curative and rejuvenative processes making life a more pleasurable experience.

#33 Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to humans. Charaka, the father of medicine consolidated Ayurveda 2500 years ago. Today Ayurveda is fast regaining its rightful place in our civilization.

#34 Chess (Shataranja or AshtaPada) was invented in India.

#35 India is a country with probably the largest and most diverse mixture of races. All the five major racial types - Australoid, Mongoloid (Moguls), Europoid (of Greek descend), Caucasian and Negroid - find representation among the people of India, who are mainly a mixed race.

#36 Albert Einstein said: "We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made".

#37 Although modern images of India often show poverty and lack of development, India was the richest country on earth until the time of British invasion in the early 17th Century. Christopher Columbus was attracted by India's wealth.

#38 Mohandas Karamchand) Gandhi was born on October 2, 1869 in Porbandar, India. He became one of the most respected spiritual and political leaders of the 1900's. Gandhi helped free the Indian people from British rule through non-violent resistance, and is honoured by his people as the father of the Indian Nation. The Indian people called Gandhi Mahatma, meaning Great Soul.

#39 India is the biggest diamond-cutting center for small roughs. These diamonds are eventually sold in shops on Fifth Avenue.

#40 India has 3.5 million professionals trained in medicine or other technical sciences. Ranking India as one of the ten largest emerging markets in the world.

#41 The first Indian-made feature film (3700 feet long) was released in 1913. It was made by Dadasaheb Phalke and was called Raja Harishchandra. Based on a story from the Mahabharata it was a stirring film concerned with honour, sacrifice and mighty deeds. From then on many "mythological" were made and took India by storm. Phalke's company alone produced about a hundred films.

#42 Perhaps the most popular of all India's culinary exports, the curry was recently named as the most popular dish in Britain. Curry derives it's name from 'kadi', the Tamil word for sabzi (or vegetable). In some parts of the world, going for a 'curry and a beer' are an intrinsic part of a good 'night out'.


CONCLUSION

These achievements are not just a matter of pride for Indians alone. They represent the triumph of the human mind and hence are a matter of pride for the human species irrespective of nationality.

But over a period of hundreds of years of dark age, this spirit of humanness was dormant in India; eclipsed as it was under influences which came from the deep recesses of the malevolence in the human mind. That these influences were embodied in invaders from other parts of the globe is only incidental. This setback could have as well been caused by internal upheavals that could have brought about malevolent influences to the fore as in imaginary cases if the Kauravas had triumphed over the Pandavas in the Mahabharat war or if Kansa had slayed Krishna at Mathura.

These possibilities are hypothetical but what happened when the spirit of humanness was trampled under the feet of invaders who brought in intolerance, persecution, forced conversions of people, destruction of places of worship, penal taxes, and a general political tyranny; could have as well taken place in some altered pattern under domestic malevolent factors embodied in say Duryodhana or Kansa.

Today after a gap of hundreds of years, the spirit of humanness can again breathe freely and it is about time that we recollect it and the successes it propelled the human mind to achieve. The human mind embodied in the ancient sages, rishis, munis and sanyasis - scientists in modern parlance.

We need to remember our past clearly and vividly, lest we forget, our capability to contribute to the repository of human knowledge, lest we forget our capability to activate the indomitable human mind residing within us, lest we forget our humane instincts that gave us a sagacious and charitable view of life along with progress - economic, technological and material.

All that which goes under the term CIVILIZATION.


AND NOW FOR THE FAMOUS QUOTES (BY OUTSIDERS):

"It is true that even across the Himalayan barrier India has sent to the west, such gifts as grammar and logic, philosophy and fables, hypnotism and chess, and above all numerals and the decimal system."

Will Durant (American Historian, 1885-1981)


"Whenever I have read any part of the Vedas, I have felt that some unearthly and unknown light illuminated me. In the great teaching of the Vedas, there is no touch of sectarianism. It is of all ages, climbs, and nationalities and is the royal road for the attainment of the Great Knowledge. When I read it, I feel that I am under the spangled heavens of a summer night."

Thoreau (American Thinker)


"If I were asked under what sky the human mind has most fully developed some of its choicest gifts, has most deeply pondered on the greatest problems of life, and has found solutions, I should point to India."

Max Muller (German Scholar, 1823-1900)


"The Sanskrit language, whatever be its antiquity is of wonderful structure, more perfect than the Greek, more copious than the Latin and more exquisitely refined than either."

Sir William Jones (British Orientalist, 1746-1794)


"The surgery of the ancient Indian physicians was bold and skilful. A special branch of surgery was dedicated to rhinoplasty or operations for improving deformed ears, noses and forming new ones, which European surgeons have now borrowed."

Sir W. Hunter (British Surgeon, 1718-1783)


"After the conversations about Indian philosophy, some of the ideas of Quantum Physics that had seemed so crazy suddenly made much more sense."

W. Heisenberg (German Physicist, 1901-1976)


"In the great books of India, an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence, which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the questions that exercise us."

R.W Emerson (American Essayist, 1803-1882)


"The ancient civilisation of India differs from those of Egypt, Mesopotamia and Greece, in that its traditions have been preserved without breakdown to the present day".

Arthur Basham (Australian Historian)


"We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made".

Albert Einstein (Nuclear Physicist)


"Mahatma Gandhi, truly the greatest and the most humble human that has ever walked this earth".

Albert Einstein (Nuclear Physicist)

Various,

What can I say ? My "insult" about 'my forefathers fathering the jat race' is hardly cussing sikhi.

FYI:- Just this week I was talking to a friend of mine who's in the Sikh Society (and he does a lot of reading,does a lot of work and sewa for the sikh soc.) - anyways,we were talking about Evolution.I asked him what the sikh stance on Evolution was.He said to me sikhism doesn't really have a stance on Evolution,and that everything before sikhi is not important.He said pre-sikhi,the world was in Dark Ages (aka Kal Yug).And that's why the birthday of Guru Nanak Dev Ji is known as 'Guru Nanak Dev Ji Prakash Utsav' [which means the day Guru Nanak Dev Ji came and shone his light].
So as far your religion goes,all this jat history is totally worthless,redundant,superfluous etc etc.

Good Day to you,
Tarun.

Tarun, is a gutless bastard! He loves to stir things up!

He has tried doing it between Ramgarhia sikhs and jats in the past.

Now he's started this ridiculous joke thing, out of no where. Its people like this pussy hole, that go and read these jokes and then start spitting them out!

and tarun you bitch, why did you try and provoke Taj - with waaagaaaaawwn black vibes.... your own people bullshit?

After all this crap about him repecting sikhism, he's always argued about things against sikhim, he has nothing positive to say about it.

What i have concieved in reading posts from hindu's, is that they have this que, that everyone is hindu, sikhs are hindu, muslims are hindu!! THEM THEM THEM!!

I can't understand the fact that they can't accept we left them ages ago, when our guru's came and showed us the light.

We have nothing to do with their customs or the way they are. JUST LEAVE US ALONE!

Back to Tarun - He is a shit stirring hindu black ass and has crossed the line big time.

This is a request to everyone single person posting to this :
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE THIS BASTARD TARUN LIVES? then we will see "what go on"

••••••• fannys invite a cunt like t to insult ya then do f uck all . more mouth then substance.

BOlockssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

taj u want tha bastards address or not?

Taj,

* I doubt very much that Yadavs are Dravidians. Hardly any Yadavs today in South India. The ones that are there are probably migrant. So, Yadavs are probably Aryan.

* BS Dhillon is a chemist,not a historian or archaeologist so he is never going to be taken seriously. Thin kitaabe - Quanungo's,Pawar's and Ram Naryanan's. So,I don't think it is isolated.

* Hindu Panjabi Jats - Haryana and Himachal Pradesh included YES or NO ? Answer that first.

* I didn't make up Santa Singh-Banta Singh. Getting gussa at me is pointless.What about LL Cool Tej (a Brit born sikh) who's got a whole site of them ?

Tarun

'Yadavs are OBCs = Other Backward Castes
Shudre are SCs or STs = Scheduled Castes / Scheduled Tribes.

Both are shudre,but are very different.'

Still,are you Aryan or Dravidian?

'There,answered it. Khush ?'

Nope.

'Back to Jats - face it. We fathered ya ! Pawar isn't in isolation. What about Quanungo ? It's more like BS Dhillon is in isolation (and that's the only book you've read). Go to www.jatland.com Under reference books,the very first one is Hukam Singh Pawar's "Jats:History,Migrations and Antiquities"'

Two guys cant change the life of this debate.Dhillon=500+ references,the only book Ive ever read.By the way,Dhillon's book is an accumulation of all that is known,studied,read,discovered about the Jatts from studies to books to thesises etc.Its a general work and its my Bible.What are you going to do?Check even Microsoft CD ROM and they acknowledge it!Yadavs and Jatts dont look the same.You dont know much so go away and read up and then talk to me.
PS.Which evidence is Pawar using although you havent read it!Sunny and XXX have read everything and they disagree with it,because Pawar is ignoring all the masses of evidence and the central issues.The only people in India before the 'Aryan invasion' were dark skinned Dravidian people believed to have an australoid connection and the Jatts,wah vey wah!Man you do know how to make correlations!You just discovered one book and recited the name of a guy I mentioned to you.

'Also - if you'd like to argue with the muslim jat dude on "Islam:Faith and Politicians",it'd be most appreciated - I'd like to see what you'd come out with. He's got some good points - that many hindu jats took to Islam in the pre-Mughal days.'

T,I didnt dispute that,I know that too when Jatts joined the Arabs upon their invasion from the Sindh,and some battalions went to Iraq to defend Arab interests.Look for where I said anything to the contrary.So I wouldnt have to requisition his statement.

'Also, 90% of Hindu Panjabi jats ? Facts and Figures please. What about the farmers of Haryana and Himachal ? Included or not ? What about Rajasthan and UP ?'

This is where science ends and speculation begins!Im talking about Punjabi speaking Punjab and the Hindu Jatts who converted,not the slimy Hindus outside.I have never met a Hindu Punjabi Jatt but maybe there are some.Jatt Sikhs pretty much dominate India Punjab.

'Back to Jats - face it. We fathered ya !'

Are you trying to take this to families now.Detectives have to worry about that nasty thing called evidence.You and Pawar will make a nice couple.Thanks for all the interest in Jatts but no thanks,Ill be expecting more bullshit from you.

Whats with all those jokes.I can make even more offensive jokes about Hindus and their practices.

T,since youre so hyper take this Pawar pandit up with XXX and we'll see what he has to say.

this donkey yadav has crossed the line.

taj give me your e Mail address.

Yadavs are OBCs = Other Backward Castes
Shudre are SCs or STs = Scheduled Castes / Scheduled Tribes.

Both are shudre,but are very different.

There,answered it. Khush ?

Back to Jats - face it. We fathered ya ! Pawar isn't in isolation. What about Quanungo ? It's more like BS Dhillon is in isolation (and that's the only book you've read). Go to www.jatland.com Under reference books,the very first one is Hukam Singh Pawar's "Jats:History,Migrations and Antiquities"

Also - if you'd like to argue with the muslim jat dude on "Islam:Faith and Politicians",it'd be most appreciated - I'd like to see what you'd come out with. He's got some good points - that many hindu jats took to Islam in the pre-Mughal days.

Also, 90% of Hindu Panjabi jats ? Facts and Figures please. What about the farmers of Haryana and Himachal ? Included or not ? What about Rajasthan and UP ?

See ya later !

Tarun.


PS:-
Q) What did Santa Singh do when he found out his wife was having twins ?
A> HE WENT LOOKING FOR THE OTHER MAN !!!
(Go visit http://www.llcooltej.com or it might be co.uk ,for some funny Santa Singh Banta Singh jokes. Come on Taj, Whhhaaaagwwaaaaan ? Your own kaum [and that too,in the UK] are taking the piss! Sort it out!)

Good day to you.

There is without any doubt that the Jats are of a central Asian origin. You have only to look at the features of Jats to see that these folks are different from the normal run of the mill Indian. In many ways the fine features of the Jats are very much alike to some Tajik and Afghan tribes . The nose straight and narrow, the higher cheek bone and generaly the lighter complection.

Tarun, if you listen to the Hindu Jats of Haryana,the used to consider their Hinduism as very un hindu, hence provoking the rantings of the Brahmins for. Since most Jats are now Muslims and Sikhs these Hindunised Jats of Haryana are left on their own,
hence the drift to more Hindunised leaning. The hindu Jats future lies in India and they know it hence they play a very big part in politics. I have a family of Hindu Jats on my street, I get on real fine with them, they are the only ones I know who will eat beef and Halal food. Sometimes I press them and they say this taboo is for Brahmins and not for them. As a matter of fact they are fine featured, and tall men and women. Some things I dont like about them mainly drinking and be rowdy on occassions.

T and Hindude,
thanks for all the attention you give to Sikhs and Jatts,I know you have nothing to look to in your own depressing kaum but we are very flattered,otherwise what other valid reason would you have not to be here.T even passed himself as H'P' but we caught him!But no one here will be visiting a Hindu site to exchange views so happy days and sweet dreams.T get Dhillon's book and see the 500+ references he has used including archaelogical and scientific studies.Why are you looking at Pawar in isolation?He is suggesting another theory but he doesnt have a l_und to jerk off from.I said Scythians were never held down by Hinduism like the 'lower castes' and we were never as devout or deranged as you non-Jatt Hindus were.Yes we were Hindu,had Hindu first names,some Hindu customs but please explain why 90% of Hindu Punjabi Jatts flocked to become Sikhs;what does that suggest?What about the abundance of anti-Hindu pratices we have had even when we were Hindu?And Jatts arent as ugly as Yadavs so that wisecrack about mating with Yadavs is eliminated in my book.But Im flattered you think your Yadav forefathers were pretty desperate to,but no thanks!You still havent answered my question,Yadavs and Chamars are 'shudrey'=same thing?That ditty about the Yadav SP,is that meant to scare me?Are you showing off?
A Hindu,I will not be answering you anymore and I ask others to avoid you,but terrey maa da gunda l_und.I want your address.

By: Preetender Singh

Indians use the 12 o'clock joke to rib the Sikhs without quite knowing what it's about. In turn, the Sikh victims get infuriated without quite knowing why. The origins of the joke, now lost in the mists of time, were in dead earnest. If the Sikhs knew the real story, they would be proud to be alluded to as the `12 o'clock people', and Indians would regard them with a new respect.

To understand the joke, we have to go back to the time of Guru Gobind Singh. Then, Delhi was ruled by Aurangzeb, an autocrat who had a firm rein on his government and patrolled his borders well. There was little chance of an invasion, but the emperor's insistence on concentrating all power in his own hands for fear of meeting the same fate as he had inflicted upon his father Shah Jehan ultimately ensured the downfall of his line.

Aurangzeb did not allow even his own sons to acquire administrative experience for fear that they would get too powerful for him to handle. In the absence of compelling authority, the Mughal empire crumbled immediately after his death. Under Bahadur Shah, his successor, the centre refused to hold and the borders became vulnerable. In 1739 Nadir Shah, King of Persia, crossed the frontier and swept down towards the capital. He was the first invader who was here only to plunder and kill, with no intention of staying on. His troops reached Delhi, where they killed 1.5 lakh people, both Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. He headed homewards almost immediately, taking back incredible loot gold, jewelry, elephants, horses, camels, skilled labourers and, as is usual in war, women.

The troops had to pass through Punjab and when the Sikhs heard of the enormous number of captured women, they decided to intervene. Without a strong military leader, they could not afford to make a frontal attack. They took to making midnight guerrilla raids on Nadir Shah's camp. Every night, small bands of Sikh led regiments would strike with the sole intention of freeing as many of the captive women as possible and returning them to their homes before daybreak. These attacks became something of an institution later, after Nadir Shah had quit the country, when an increasing number of invaders began to come down into the Indian plains, drawn by its fabled riches.

Thus was the 12 o'clock joke born. Initially, instead of being grateful for their heroism, Indians would say that the Sikhs are in their senses only at night. It was apparently futile to expect help from them at other times. Then they referred to midnight, for they didn't want to credit the Sikhs with sense for the duration of a whole night. The Sikhs were naturally annoyed. They were trying to help Indian people and were getting only derision in return. They were always armed, and did not hesitate to draw steel. To minimise personal risk, Hindus and Muslims started referring to the relatively neutral 12 o'clock, rather than midnight, and even then they often ran for their lives.

The final result was the safe, bald statement, `It is 12 o'clock,' shorn of all reference to its very interesting history. When Indians crack this joke, they are oblivious to the fact that had the Sikhs not intervened, their womenfolk would have been dishonoured and taken into exile. The Sikhs should be proud of the 12 o'clock incident. Because of them, the dignity of the Indian community was restored after Nadir Shah's invasion, the most terrible act of war ever to be perpetrated in India.

It hurts me most when a woman inflicts the 12 o'clock joke on me. It sets me wondering, what if one of my forefathers had not rescued one of her foremothers. Had it not been for help from our community, perhaps, this woman might have been living in a foreign land, and in very different circumstances.

BABBAR SHERE PUNJAB DE-BLOOD AND SOIL OF PUNJAB
----------------------------------------------------

Life would be boring without jokes. We all crack jokes. Jokes are sometimes aimed at ethnic groups such as the Irish to undermine that community. In India, most of the jokes, for some years now are being cracked on the Sikhs. There are the 12 o'clock jokes, Banta Singh-Santa Singh jokes, Giani Zail Singh jokes, Baldev Singh jokes, Khalistan jokes, the list is endless. (cross ref: How the sih joke was born). Picture yourself as a Sikh and look for an honest response from within yourself. Would you be able to handle these day in day out of cracks targeted at you by colleagues/friends/the unknown person standing next to you/anyone and everyone taking the liberty. I know your immediate reaction..."sure man, it's only a joke." You are absolutely right, it is only a joke. However when a joke enters the bloodstream as a cancerous virus and you get targeted daily, right from your childhood, let me tell you, as much as you believe you can, the fact is you will not be able to handle them. On the other hand, look at the Sikhs. Have you ever seen anyone of them getting irritated with these digs & cracks on them. You wouldn't have. Ever thought why they don't get effected? Well the answer lies in a couplet by Saint Kabeer :

Kaho Kabir chucha ghat bole. Bhariya hoe so kabahu na dole. Says Kabeer, an empty pitcher makes noise. But that which is full, makes no sound.

Sikhs by nature are self-respecting, courageous, hardworking and enterprising. Look into their short span of history and you will find their pitcher is full of sacrifices and hardwork which has contributed so much towards the nation building. If not for them, the course of Indian History would have been very different. That's what makes them the SPIRIT BORN PEOPLE and gives the ability to simply ignore the digs targeted at them.

Volumes could be written on the contributions made by the Sikhs, who constitute less than 2% of Indian population. I am listing below just a few, which should make my friends start thinking.....

#1 Sikhs have always believed in the right of an individual to practice a religion of his own choice and have always fought against tyranny. Jahangir, the 4th Mughal ruler wrote in his memoirs, Tuzak-i-Jahangiri about Arjan Dev, the 5th Sikh Guru, "....for a long time the thought had been presenting itself to me that he should be bought to the fold of Islam....". In 1606, when the Guru refused the forceful conversion, he was put to death by boiling in a cauldron and sitting on a hot iron plate.

"This was a martyrdom for the defence of basic human values and rights"

#2 Aurangzeb, the 6th Mughal ruler was a fanatic ruler who desired to convert every Indian to Islam. Tyrannized by his forceful conversions, a delegation of Kashmiri Brahmins in 1675, approached Tegh Bahadur, the 9th Guru of the Sikhs. He offered to sacrifice his life for their cause. This was a unique & unparalleled sacrifice in the annals of human history. He laid down his life in defence of religious tolerance, of freedom of worship, and freedom of conscience. He gave his life so that the Hindu's right to wear the sacred thread is not violated despite the fact that Sikhs themselves did not believe in these rituals. This was a martyrdom for the defence of basic human values and rights.

...when all other means have failed, it is but right to unsheath the sword.
#3 For about 7 centuries, since the invasion of Mahmud Ghazni in the 10th century, many ruthless invaders played havoc with the life of Indians. Recurring defeats had sapped the psychic energy of the Indians so much that they had resigned themselves to their fate. It was Gobind Singh, the 10th Guru of the Sikhs who imbibed the fearlessness amongst the Sikhs to fight against all odds. He wrote to Aurangzeb saying "when all means have failed, it is right to pick up the sword" In the year 1699 he proclaimed, "call me by the name of Gobind Singh, only if i succeed in making the sparrows (Indians) fight against the Hawks (mighty foreign rulers) and am able to make one Sikh fight against an army of one Lakh". He set himself against oppression and intolerance. He did not fight against any territory or worldly power, or against any religion or sect. He made nationalism the religion of Sikhs. Apart from the numerous Sikhs who lost their life in defence of the country under him, his 2 sons were martyred on the battleground, while the other 2 preferred to be bricked alive than give up their esteem. In 1709 he left this world with a lifetime of heroic events which changed the history of India.

#4 Bulle Shah, a celebrated Sufi Muslim Saint has said, "I neither say of the past, nor of the future, but i talk of the time of Guru Gobind Singh & declare openly. That but for him, all the Indians would have been circumcised and converted to a foreign culture and religion".

#5 In 1710, Banda Singh Bahadur was the first Indian to re-establish Indian rule after 7 centuries of foreign rule in India, post a fierce battle with the forces of Aurangzeb, although this was short lived.

#6 Between 1713 and 1801 the Sikhs were homeless and living as Guerillas, demonstrating heroic acts of courage at every possible instance. The tyrant rulers had put a reward of Rs. 25/= for every Sikh head and Rs. 100/= for every Sikh caught alive. Those caught alive would be cut to pieces. Many new vocabulory (of which many jokes against Sikhs are made nowdays) were given currency among the Sikh guerillas which showed with what brave face and heart they had accepted the challenge of their persecutors.

#7 In 1738 Nadir Shah, the Persian ruler invaded India from Kabul and went on a rampage upto Delhi. He returned to Persia in summer of 1739 and carried back a huge booty of looted wealth, Kohinoor diamond, women, artisans and slaves. To avoid the summer heat, the convoy would rest during the day and travel in the night. At the peak of the day heat at12 noon and midnight, the Sikh guerillas started attacking his convoy right from Punjab upto the Indus. They freed many women, artisans, slaves and deprived him of large amount of wealth. The women were escorted back to Delhi by the Sikhs. It was for this heroic act, which no one else dared, of fighting against the might of Nadir Shah by a handful of Sikhs and freeing the women, that the Sikhs were then seen as people who go mad at 12 noon/midnight and therefore the birth of the 12 o' clock jokes to undermine this Sikh feat. When Nadir Shah asked Zakhariya Khan " who these barbarians where and where they lived", Zakhariya replied " they are the followers of Nanak & live on saddles of their horses".

#8 Post the return of Nadir Shah to Persia, Zakhariya Khan went on a rampage against the Sikh movement and killed 10,000 of them in a few days.

#9 Between 1748 & 1765, Ahmad Shah Abdali the ruler from Afghanistan rampaged India 9 times. Again the Sikhs attacked his returning convoys during the peak summer heat and midnight and freed 2200 women and escorted them back to their homes. Yet again a heroic act at 12 noon/midnight, which unfortunately the others perceived as a maddening act and therefore further strengthened the12 'o' clock syndrome. These acts of Sikhs aggravated Ahmed Shah Abdali, who swore to take revenge at an appropriate time. During his 6th invasion he caught the Sikhs unaware and 25,000 of them were killed in a few days. Tthe spirit of the Sikhs remained high as one Nihang Sikh of that time commented "only the soft and unbaked ones of us have fallen off".

#10 Finally, Sikhs under Ranjit Singh, in 1798 bought to an end the 800 years of foreign invasions into India through Khyber pass, by bringing it under their control. This was the best gift the Sikhs gave to the nation which finally allowed the rest of India to breathe in peace. Hari Singh Nalwa, who manned the Khyber pass for years became a household name in Afghanistan. Even today, the Afghani mothers put their children to sleep with the threat of Hari Singh Nalwas name.

#11 It was Ranjit Singh who bought back to India, the world famous Kohinoor diamond, which was looted by Nadir Shah earlier.

#12 If not for the Sikhs, who captured Kashmir in 1819, today it would have been a part of Afghanistan.

#13 Ladakh, which earlier was a part of Tibet, owes its existence on the map of India to Zorawar Singh, who captured it in 1836.

#14 Sikhs were the last to surrender to the British in the sub-continent and were the first to raise arms against them. (Cross ref: Ghadar Party,Kartar Singh, Bhagat Singh, Udham Singh)

"....such a mass of men, fierce and untamed in their dying struggle, who fought like Lions and ran right on the bayonets and struck on their assailants when they were transfixed"
#15 After 2 bloody Anglo-Sikh wars did British manage to annexe Punjab as the last kingdom on the map of British-India Empire. It is an irony of fate that the Sikhs had to fight against their own countrymen as British forces in saving Punjab from British annexation. It was not due to lack of soldiers courage & conviction that the wars against British were lost, but treachery by Gulab, the Dogra primeminister under Ranjit Singh, who joined hands with the British in exchange for the title of Kashmir on winning the war. British records say about the Sikhs "....such a mass of men, fierce and untamed in their dying struggle, who fought like Lions and ran right on the bayonets and struck on their assailants when they were transfixed".

#16 Inspite of the loss of empire to British, the spirit of freedom amongst Sikhs was soaring high. Whereas the British would daily fire a canon at 12 noon by the East India Co. time, which was the Calcutta time, the Sikhs on the other hand refused to recognize the British time. There is a one and a half hour time difference between Calcutta and Lahore time and therefore the Sikhs maintained their firing of the Canon at 12 noon Lahore time. Amongst the general public there was a confusion as to which canon denoted the 12 noon and therefore at the fire of the first canon the public would say "12 o clock of British" and on the second fire, an hour and a half later, they would say "12 o clock of Sikhs." Soon the spirit of defiance and freedom was forgotten by fellow Indians and they started linking the madness demonstrated by them during Nadir Shah and Abdalis invasions at 12 noon/midnight to the act of defiance during British period and there took place the 12 o clock jokes.

#17 Much before 1919, when Mahatma Gandhi issued the call for satyagraha (boycotting English goods), the Sikhs under Baba Ram Singh had started the boycott movement in the year 1863. As a consequence, eighty two Sikhs were tied to canons & blown apart by British.

"Grant me this boon, O Lord, at last when the end of life is near, I may die fighting in the battlefield for the sake of righteousness"
#18 Sikhs were the only Indian community to be internationally acclaimed as early as 1897, for their heroism and valour. Where in the history of warfare can you find the instance of heroism as demonstrated by 22 Sikh soldiers manning the signal post of Saragahi in North-West province with no ammunition back up. All the 22 of them fought till the last bullet had been fired against an Afghan army of 7000 warriors.The 22 soldiers then charged with their kirpans to be eventually cut down to pieces. The easier way out would have been to surrender but the spirit of Sikhs has always made them do what Gobind Singh, the 10th Guru had said, "Grant me this boon, O Lord, at last when the end of life is near, I may die fighting in the battlefield for the sake of righteousness".

#19 The first battle for freedom from British was won by Sikhs, when after loss of many lives in 1929 they were able to take over the charge of their shrines from British. On this victory Mahatma Gandhi sent a telegram saying " THE FIRST DECISIVE BATTLE OF INDEPENDENCE OF INDIA WON - CONGRATULATIONS".

#20 Where in the world can you find an act of sacrifice like that of Sikhs in 1922, willing to offer lives of their wives, children and themselves by lying on the rails to stop a train of freedom fighters who only had to be fed because they were hungry. The train finally stopped after killing a many Sikhs.

#21 Not many can claim the valour with which Bhagat Singh offered himself at the altar of Indias' freedom in 1931.

#22 There is not another instance of bravery as shown by Udham Singh in 1940, when he went to London and shot dead Sir Michael O' Dwyer at a public meeting, to avenge and remove the stain on Indian dignity of the Jallianwala massacre.

#23 Out of 42,000 recruits in the Indian National Army under the command of Subhash Chandra Bose, 28,000 soldiers contributing 67% of strength, were Sikhs.

#24 Contribution of Sikhs who are less than 2% of Indias population , in the freedom struggle of India against the British.

PUNISHED TOTAL SIKHS % OF SIKHS

Hanged 121 93 77%
Life Imprisonment 2646 2147 81%
Jallianwala Bagh 1300 799 62%
massacre Book source : "History of Indian National Congress".

#25 Partition of India in 1947 brought innumerable death to Sikhs and was the greatest disaster known in the Indian history. Surely the Sikhs paid the heaviest price for the so-called freedom of the country.

#26 Punjab lost its most fertile part to Pakistan during the partition. However, today due to hard labour of Sikh farmers, the Punjab in India produces much higher quantities of food-grain than the fertile Punjab in Pakistan. Punjab contributes 40% of rice and 51% of wheat into the central pool of foodgrains in India.

#27 Post partition, many of the landless Sikhs who settled in the jungles of Terai in Uttar Pradesh have today made the area as fertile as Punjab.

#28 Contribution of Sikhs towards the Indian Defence Services is the highest with respect to their 2% population size. This community has also won the maximum number of gallantary awards since independence - 5 Param Vir Chakras (PVCs), 40 Maha Vir Chakras (MVCs), 209 Vir Chakras (VrCs).

#29 During the emergency of 1975 imposed by Indira Gandhi, no organized protest was made across the country by any section of community, except for the Sikhs who conducted daily morchas, involving 40,000 arrests.

#30 You will never find a Sikh ever begging on the roads, inspite of being uprooted & made homeless many times, they have demonstrated the ability to rise back from the scratch. Each one of them actively contributes towards the nation building. Almost 30 years ago, Professor Milton Friedman (Noble Prize Winner) an American Economist, on his visit to India had humourously remarked, "Lease out India to the Sikhs for a while and there will be no problem of development". Could there be any greater compliment to the Sikh spirit and enterprise. Inspite of endless contibutions made by Sikhs towards the nation building, our friends find them to be a laughing stock. Well, it makes no difference to the Sikhs as their pitchers are filled with unparalleled acts.

As a nation we may lack the sense of humour but Sikhs are a rare species, with a great sense of humour. This is the community which has learnt to fight, succeed and laugh. It is time for our fellow Indians to do a bit of introspection.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A JAT,

You can get Yadav Panjabis - Current SP of Jalandhar is a Yadav,Gaurav Yadav.And he's arrested Darshan Singh of Coventry.

If you don't like Haryanvis - why do you people keep banging on about the "split of Panjab" and "HPs turning their backs on Panjabi" ... ???

What's bothering you about non-Panjabi Yadavs?I'd laugh if HS Pawar's theory was true ... that my forefather's fathered yours !!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA


Arjun SM,

Yeah - Hindujas are some very powerful people.Did you know that in the British Top 10 Richlist there are 3 hindus - the two Hinduja brothers and Lakshmi Mittal.
And somewhere inbetween 10 and 30,there's Lord Swaraj Paul, a HP from Jalandhar. Hindus,are definitely,the most powerful and influential of the 3 S.Asian religions in the UK.


Hindu,

Kaise ho bhai sa'ab?Go to www.jatland.com -- there,under the recommended books is Hukam Pawar's "Jats:Antiquity and Migrations". Which further adds fuel to the fire that jats originated from India itself,and accepted Hindu customs.

Also,on the "ISlam,Faith and Politicians" page, there's a Muslim Jat who's saying that many Jats took to Islam under the pre-Mughal period.So, these anti-hindu people haven't got a leg to stand on in their arguments when they say "the Scythians came and never fully accepted Hinduism".

TARUN

You are a stupid thich dumb head hindu.passing yourself off as a smarty.you are plain dimwit.

To dhillon,

“Added value”, that’s rich coming from you when you fail to see the false and inaccurate statements your Jat puppets (cooljat and co.) have been making about Hindu and Sikh religions.

So don’t get smart with me about your “added value”. If you are that intelligent then ensure accuracy before your “puppets” make statements.

PS. And as far as Malhotra is concerned, he does not count in the discussion anyway as he is one confused guy who doesn’t know whether he is a Hindu or a Sikh.

to a hindu:

listen you retard---no sikhs is saying we dont have a prior hindu history---but we are now Sikhs and do have a separate cuultural and moral outlook---why cant you hindu prats just leave us alone---thats all we want from you---ypu can be as hindu as you want---all we sikhs want is to be left alone---is that too much to ask.

P.S. If you nothing of value to add, take arjun malhotra's advice and shut up.

arjun dhillon

Arjun S M

Great.

A HINDU,
That's a given, because I'm Hindu myself.

To, Arjun Singh Malhotra

So you think Sikhs have a Hindu History, great so we are in agreement.

So what are you trying to say, Sikh trying to distort Sikh history?

A HINDU,
what the hell are you trying to do? Convert Sikhs back into Hinduism? Dumbass. Every single post that you've dished out to us is insulting to Sikhs. Face it, these people are Sikhs, and yes, even though they do have a Hindu history, they are culturally distinct from us Hindus. I don't see what the motive is you have in your head, but it's just plain silly to me, may I say. From your comments, you sound pretty damn close to what the Arya Samaj was doing in Punjab. My dad hates them with a vengeance. When he was 7, he saw a busload of them come from Himachal Pradesh, and had some Chamar Sikhs along with them and converted them on the spot; cutting their hair, shaving their beards, and then selling the hair as rope. My dad hates them with a special hatred, since they claim no-caste status, but go around and do horrible things to people. The way you talk, not far from it.

Let's get away from this Indian hatred for a moment, shall we? Did anybody hear about the Hinduja brothers? Man, they're in it DEEP! Seems like they were helping out India, but illegally. They had Swedish missiles and guns, as well as some Russian ones, and just fuckin gave 'em to India. But seems there was an impropriety in it somewhere. The director of CBI, Joginder Singh, might even seek extradition.

Sangat asked to stop anti-Sikh campaign
Tribune News Service


AMRITSAR, Dec 7 — Sounding a note of warning, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, Jathedar, Akal Takht, asked the Rashtriya Sikh Sangat (RSS) and its outfits to immediately stop its campaign, which could adversely affect the distinctive separate identity of Sikhs.

In a press note on the letter head of Akal Takht, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti has said the propaganda, which can “mislead” the Khalsa Panth, should be stopped without further delay.

This is for the first time that Jathedar, Akal Takht, has openly criticised the RSS for its “anti-Sikh” propaganda. Earlier, the Sikh conclave on May 14 had not directly name the RSS.

The Jathedar took strong exception to the report published in a local news magazine wherein an RSS leader, Mr Madanjit Singh, had challenged the history of the Golden Temple. He said it was the “figment of imagination” of the person aimed at hurting the sentiments.

The Jathedar also flayed the RSS for distributing posters all over the state wherein the “oneness of God” was distorted to equate Sikhs with Hindus, which led to resentment among Sikh masses. Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti urged the Sikh sangat not be misled by the “malicious and baseless” propaganda being launched by RSS activists.

He said the “distortion” of Sikh identity was being done under a deep-rooted conspiracy. In the past such attempts by some unscrupulous persons had pushed Punjab into turmoil for two decades.

Jathedar Jagdev Singh Talwandi had reportedly announced that he would take up the issue of the RSS distorting Sikh history with the Prime Minister.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

F A S T I N G
to anonymous for your information. always look at the comments by an outsider.his or her openion could be different.here is mine.
fasting does help the digestive system to recover.as for as spirituality is concered it has nothing to do with it.i went through Kuraan Sharif.there it says if miss or say Allah, there will be gardens and canals flowing.the reason for that is, there is shortage of water and vegetation in arab.same applies to food.there was shortage of food also . this might be the reason for the fast to help out the poor as well.
Fasting has the same effect as worshipping idols.spirituality is mental. fasting is physical.if you have any doubt read the sufi poetry . it says God has created a veil between human mind and the godly soul. if you can connect the two . you have acheived godliness or became part of God itself.nothing elxe matters .how you acheive it, every religion or every person has their own belief and their own way which ever they believe in . regards

YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE ANSWERS BUT YOU DONT HAVE THE BRAIN CELLS TO TAKE IT IN.TYPICAL HINDU.
NOTHING IN HINDUISM SO LOOKING FOR LIGHT IN SIKHI.THE LIGHT IS THERE BUT HINDUS DON'T HAVE BRAIN MATTER REQ> FOR THEIR OWN LET ALONE ANYONE ELSE.HAHAHAHA

Learn something about Sikhism ===> Sikhs

"Bhagat Kabir is an example of this and there were countless of people like him.
I believe that we should pay our respects to these people since without them there would be no Sikhism"

But I thought you believed in the supreme God, and not idols like Bhagat Kabir (see your previous posting if you already forgot your statements).

PS. You don't have to reply to my answer, because you don't have one.

tarun or are you A Hindu today.whatever.do ask all two of you not to respond to my posts.is that a promise.good.

your post confirms that you cant read .and thats the only point you have ever made.

i cant go to broadway coz its a few hundred miles away and i dont drink,but you can go with your fellow drinkers,no ones stopping ya!

i am proud to be pindu and a jat and a sikh .coz we are facinated by ourselves!.look at you --you are!
even non punjabi pratts like you cant resist us.like moth to a flame.

now dont forget,try real hard and get interseted in your own ruddy people--whatever they are----.

THIS MONTH IS THE HOLY MONTH OF FASTING. SOME OF YOU MAY NOT KNOW THE REAL MEANING OF FASTING I THOUGHT I'D GIVE YOU SOME INFO TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE .

THE MOST ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENT TO THE HUMAN IS FOOD FOLLOWED BY CLOTHES AND A HOUSE... U KNOW ROTI , KAPRA , MAKAN.

THE ACTION OF TAKING A MORSEL OF FOOD AND PLACING IT IN ONES MOUTH DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THE NUTRITIONAL BENEFIT WILL BE RECEIVED FROM THE FOOD. FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FOOD, IT MUST BE DIGESTED AND THEN THE NUTRIENTS WILL CIRCULATE FOR THE BETTERMENT OR SUSTENANCE OF THE WHOLE BODY. NOW FOR EXAMPLE YOU TAKE THE MORSEL AND EAT IT, BUT BEFORE IT IS DIGESTED , YOU STICK YOUR FINGER DOWN YOUR THROAT AND MAKE YOURSELF SICK, HENCE BRINGING UP THE FOOD, THIS ACTION WILL DO YOU HARM AND IT WILL BE A WASTE OF FOOD, IT WILL NOT BENEFIT YOU. IN THE SAME WAY FASTING IS A FOOD FOR THE SPIRIT FOR THE DISCIPLINE OF MANKIND. TO GET THE REAL BENEFIT FROM FASTING ONE MUST LET THE FAST DIGEST I.E. WHEN FASTING ONE AVOIDS FALSEHOOD, DISHONESTY , SIN, ETC. THE URGE TO EAT IS THERE BECAUSE OF HUNGER, BUT ONE LEARNS TO DEAL WITH THAT MOST ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENT BY ABSTAINING FROM FOOD FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. IT TEACHES ONE TO DO AWAY WITH THINGS THAT ARE HARMFUL AND NOT NECESSARY, TO GO BACK TO THE VICES AFTER FASTING IS LIKE STICKING THE FINGER IN ONES THROAT TO BE SICK TO BRING UP AND DESTROY WHAT WOULD BENEFIT US SPIRITUALLY. FASTING IS A GREAT WAY TO BENEFIT ONESELF . ITS GOOD FOR THE SPIRIT AND HELPS BUILD SABARR . FASTING COMES EVERY YEAR FOR 30 DAYS . ITS A CHANCE TO THE LESS WORTHY OF US TO MEND OUR WAYS .

REGARDS

Anonymous,

Thanks for taking time to read up on Yadavs.
Yadav gunned down in Midlands - heard of it.Didn't know the details.
As far as Bihar goes - Ummmm, not really sure but I think Rabri Devi Yadav is the CM and she's the wife of Lalloo Prasad Yadav,not any P.Yadav that u talk of.

Thanks for all the interest.

Tarun

A JAT,

You're thick.You've said you are a pendoo - and BELIEVE,it shows ! You just keep coming out with same bukwaas "sikhs,don't answer this hindu/Tarun" ... that's your only answer to anything.Everytime I hit you -- or even the "hindu"with a point,you just keep saying that same over used line.
Well I got news for you - "Hindu",bhai sa'ab is gawaar sardar ke liye kuch naa likha karo.Bahuthi barra un-parr gawaar hai.

Hindus - Don't write to A JAT,'cos he can't read English and he's a prat.

A JAT,
Hun tu jaake sharaab pee la te Broadway te bhangra pao.

Tarun

I believe that the philosphy that eventually became Sikhism, started long before the 10 Gurus.
When, Islam came to the Indian subcontinent, millions of hindus converted to Islam ( 1000 AD to 1400 AD). A huge majority of these converts were from the so called lower castes. These people were never really hindus, since the so called upper castes forbade them access to the hindu religous scriptures and temples. However, these people were still strongly influenced by hinduism. These new converts link to Islam was still pretty weak and thus they were in the best position to choose the best from each religon.
Bhagat Kabir is an example of this and there were countless of people like him. They formed the philosphy that gradually spread throughout India and eventually was heavily incorporated into Sikhism.

I believe that we should pay our respects to these people since without them there would be no Sikhism.

Just Asking,

That's why I brought up this point. I think we should pay them the same the respect. Well their vaani is in Guru Granth Sahib. So, I assume respect has been paid by our gurus while compiling Guru Granth Sahib. But, I still don't see Sikh celebrating their birthdays which I think they should do.

Take care :)

No offence, but in the 1st place, is that respect there for Kabir in your holy books and esp in your traditions?

Hey guys,

I want to know if you agree with me. I believe Sikhism started a long before Guru Nanak Dev Ji. It was just compiled by ten gurus. So, it wouldn't be wrong for us to pay the same respect to bhagats like Bhagat Kabir as any of our ten gurus.

Please let me have your views.

Thanks

People like Bhagat Kabir were the first to reject the rituals of hinduism and Islam and combine them into a Sufi philosphy that forms the backbone of Sikhism.

Kabir Poems;

Are you looking for me? I am in the next seat.
My shoulder is against yours.
you will not find me in the stupas, not in Indian shrine rooms, nor in synagogues, nor in cathedrals:
not in masses, nor kirtans, not in legs winding
around your own neck, nor in eating nothing but
vegetables.
When you really look for me, you will see me instantly --
you will find me in the tiniest house of time.
Kabir says: Student, tell me, what is God?
He is the breath inside the breath

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I said to the wanting-creature inside me:
What is this river you want to cross?
There are no travelers on the river-road, and no road.
Do you see anyone moving about on that bank, or nesting?

There is no river at all, and no boat, and no boatman.
There is no tow rope either, and no one to pull it.
There is no ground, no sky, no time, no bank, no
ford!

And there is no body, and no mind!
Do you believe there is some place that will make the
soul less thirsty?

In that great absence you will find nothing.

Be strong then, and enter into your own body;
there you have a sold place for your feet.
Think about it carefully!
Don't go off somewhere else!

Kabir says this: just throw away all thoughts of
imaginary things,
and stand firm in that which you are.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Kabir was a born a muslim, however his parents were hindu chamars who converted to Islam. In reality, Kabir message was neither muslim or hindu, it preached equality. He offended both muslims and the so called upper caste hindus.

This is not a Hindu or Non Punjabi thread but since we have a Yadev here ,maybe we could show some interest in Yadevs for a change.
So what's happening back in Bihar.Well P.Yadev has been jailed.He has been in and out of jail for the last four years on corruption charges.He was the C.M. of Bihar but now his wife is.What a surprise.
She is merely a figurehead.Yadev has been accused of siphon off Government revenues for personal gains.He is awaiting trial.
There's more Yadevs than we give credit for.Well some Doctor Yadev has been gunned down,in the Midlands.They say that he was having an affair with a patient.Dear,dear.What to do with these Yadevs and Non Punjabis.This is just the tip of the iceberg.................................

to all sikhs.

dont bother answering a hindu/tarun on this thread again.his last message shows that he is one and the same person and that he is either drunk or demented--hes not taking anything in at all and his gibberish questions reinforces,that totally.

personally,i dont care whether you believe we are scythians or not.what astounds me is why you care so much--the facination--like i said originals and we dont blame you one bit.take some time out and get some books and really read up on scythians,if you are so obsessed.its only right and proper.we cant tell you whats written about us,in the hundreds and thousands of books,now can we.
and it dont help,that you are rather slow--so take it in your own time and at your own pace-----you'll get there.

i cant tell if you are referring to me or someone else being that your post was full of gibberish but what was i doing in a mandhir.i was invited by brahmins--punjabi brahmins,who speak punjabi,love punjabi and live in punjab.i fella brigue cant stand non punjabis---interesting----

they know my feelings--i dont know a thing about hinduism.dont want to know but dont say anything about it.but i can say what i saw.which i do.this was a sharma/bawa wedding and everything was held in the mandhir---service---eating/drinking/dancing.there were many murtis and hindus picked and chose,who they bowed to.

mind you other hindus i know, get married and hold akhandparts in the gurdwaras.

like i say sikhs you neednt answer this twit again,coz you can see that hes loosing his mind--making up names and confusing who said what.

good day to all sikhs and punjabis.take care.

Arjun SD,

Is the book "Sikh Struggle" by Ram K Narayan the same one you mentioned where there was a Yadav connection (you said something like that months ago on a different thread) ?

Tarun

For how long will you eat the CHILLAR?

Does any one know what the word SIKH means?

Will someone please tell me ....or am I going mad. Is it just me or is it true i've allready lost it?hOW far am i off the mark?

Is not true that a true sikhs journey for sikhning the path to salvation is never ending?Is it not true a true sikh is in tune with his soul and his destiny?
Is it not true a true sikh has not much time for outward symbols but the inner self. Somthing like not eating the peel, but consuming/realising the juice of the inner fruit.

i think some aspects of sikh faith are more in tune with sufi islam. am i right ? i have heard kabir was a muslim and muslims respect baba nanak, but not other gurus.

to a Hindu:

just read your posts and you have asked many typically stock questions that staunch hindus ask. In a way you are asking for a lot of "free" information from sikhs. If i may suggest, you should do some redaing on sikkhism on your own and see if Sikki is part of the hinduism you claim.

You see "hindu" you should not be asking questions unless you have the true intent to learn and better yourself and what better way than your own research. It seems you ask questions about Sikki to provoke--it seems your mind is already made up.

If I may, I suggest you start with a book by a hindu in fact "The SIKH STRUGGLE" by Ram Kumar Narayan.

p.s. as a sikh let me tell you that we sikhs want and need nothing from you hindus except to be left well alone---you to yours and we to ours.

P.S. Do not reply to this post as I have no time to respond to the likes of you.


arjun dhillon

You daft Jatt

THE DEFINITION:

“Scythians: Name given (before the 5th century BC) by the Greeks to the peoples who occupied the north shore of the Black Sea. A nomadic race, probably of Asiatic origin, they remained in southern Russia until conquered by the Sarmatians. Later the Goths and other immigrants conquered the Sarmatians. In early modern times "Scythian" was used more widely to refer to prehistoric cultures (Celtic, Germanic and Slavic) of eastern Europe”

Key point in the above definition: “they remained in southern Russia until conquered by the Sarmatians”

So much for the daft theory about Scythians and Jatts, next thing you will be saying your ancestors had blond hair and blue eyes and Hitler was your distant cousion. Mind you I would not put it past you.
Anyway, if everything fails then you can always say the Jatts came from the moon. That should be convincing enough just as your argument about Hindus eat meat in Mandir, more Hindus drink than Sikhs, young incident Hindu females puts bad habit in you and make you drink, etc, etc, etc…
Never mind eh! Must be used to going back to the old drawing board by now.

PS: What were you doing in Hindu temple anyway? I though you said you have never set or want to set a foot in a Mandir! (The old drawing board again? I think so)

PPS: I see the swear words have started to appear again, you just cant' resist it can you.

PPPS: I dare you to be accurate in your statement next time. No actually make this as a mission in your life. Go on I dare you again.

Arjun Malhotra,Bahmanna de l_und marran wallian de karr jamian Rajput soorma,hey you six-toed little slut,like I have been saying you dont know jack shit man.Porush is Persian,Porus comes from the fact he was a Jatt with the clan name of Porr who still reside in some parts of Punjab and Haryana.The Greeks had a habit of giving foreigners the suffixes 'is','os',or 'us' hence Porr=Porus!This is well recorded in the works of the classical Greek writers.As per Dhillon,page 37,the Greeks Arrian(95-175 AD) and Diodorus(49 BC) and Plutarch (45-120 AD)indicate the Scythians (Jatt) were already in Punjab by Alexander's time.Some Jatts are recalled to have joined him but already there was defence in place!Jatt Scythians!The Mallian(Malli/Malhi) Jatts had struck him with an arrow and he died days later.The Malhi Jatts still live there where the battle took place.Porus is described as having the traditional characteristics of Scythians/Jatts;nowhere is Rajput mentioned.On this website the word Rajput is first heard in the 10th Century(?),but the Scythians,here the Massagetae,were already in North India before Alexander arrived.He arrived in 326 BC and the ancient forefathers of the Rajputs,the White Hun Scythians came in 525 AD (page 39,Dhillon).
Sorry to hurt you but Malhotra are meant to be ancient Kshatriya,not Rajput Kshatriya,the descendants of Greek Bactrians who lost to the Jatts in North India and as XXX says on another thread they were classed as 'fallen Kshatriya' by the priests.Either way,you are fascinated by Jatts,your bhabhi is a Jatt!And if you are Rajput,then you guys are Scythian like Jatts too!But everyone has been singing praises about Jatts for centuries,and the Rajputs?Lets not go there!Oh yes you know who are the bad boys!All the Gabroos of Punjab!A Bruuuuah for you!

And Alexander the Great would have eventually conquered all of the known world by then if it hadn't been for his homesick soldiers who mutineered him. Have a good night.

Tajneen Ul-Adneen,
for Porus being a Scythian, please show me proof. The original Sanskrit for "Porus" is "Purush" or man. The Scythic race had been in the proximities of Eastern Europe, spoke an Indo-Iranian tongue, all within the AD's!!! And eventually migrated. So Alexander the Great had been long before BC. So how is Purush being a Jatt possible? I don't think it's bloody likely, and until you can show some concrete proof, don't respond.

Brar is a Sikh and maybe known to the locals as a helpful guy.If he isn't,he'll be out on his ear.

Why were the Hindu hungry and homeless voting in Indira even after emergency and those conditions to boot.A Muslim Bharat Mata for the Hindu Janta.Priceless!

Taj,

* Lord Krishna had 3 wives,not 10000.One of them was Rukmani.I can't remember the names of the other two. His love was Radha,but he never married her.

* As for Ram and killing a shudra - news to me !

* Taj,(out of curiousity)why do refuse to accept Pawar's or Quanungo's theories ?

Tarun.

T,Again you dont know what youre talking about.Dhillon didnt say we Jatts engaged in big sexual frenzies,the White Hun Scythians Arjun M's ass kissing forefathers(who became Rajputs) did that on Mount Abu in Rajasthan with the lalley mahasha pandits.Dhillon says the same as A Jatt and everyone else.That should explain why we have arranged marriages,Jatt for Jatt.Explain why does nearly 8 out of every 10 Jatts have big limbs,tall height,handsome features,very fair skin etc.Im being pretty much truthful that the majority of Sikhs who fit this category are Jatt,though Ramgarhia do have the same too.Tell me,without being rude,does it say in your religious texts that Lord Krishna married 10,000 virgins?And is it true Lord Rama killed a Sudra in return for the killing of a Bahman?Im not here to offend anyone.

'First off, cunt, got it all wrong. Check for yourself, Rajputs in Rajasthan are ALL Kshatriyas.'

Well DuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuH.

'Kshatriyas were Aryas, always will be Aryas, and that's that. I ain't got no fascination for Jats. So I ain't gonna research. Rajputs have been around during Alexander's time,'

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

'Porus was a Rajput'

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Hey Fuddu,Porus=Raja Porus=Jatt.Wounded Alexander in the streets of Punjab but died himself.Finally it was the Malhi Jatts who took out Alexander and stopped his run across the world.

Here is another Mahasha Lal Chand cow dung eating rat worshipping guy who cant even speak Punjabi.Boy you are stupid.A point worth remembering,Jatts are only impressed by themselves,we didnt invite you to tell us your story.Which was why the bahmans,(makers of the Rajput fuddus,masters of the Hindu race)could never hold us down.The bahmans would come to Punjab to read the Jatts the riot act and we would send the makers of the Rajputs home,spitting and cursing them.LL CoolJatt was right all along,Arjun M is a slave of the bahmans.The words 'fireborn',twice born','Shankarachariya','Buddhism','White Huns','Mount Abu','the art of buttf.ing the pandit',should be enough to help you transgress back to your past life thousands of years ago when you visit a hypnotist.

the only assimilation has been by geography and weather.

how long has the caste system and arranged marriage system been in operation in india and how would thse two things allow mixing.and we not talking about modern times like 20 years or abroad or those who cant control themselves.

if that was the case you hindus would have no chamars left or any brahmins left.olden days were stricter than now.arjun--i see your point but are all scholars wrong but your right.you are from a mixed background so you keep saying.khatris is what punjabis call you and that could explain your looks.read and digest.

how much has your personal family taken part in assimilation over the years .i ask that without undue malice but you are more open than most.for instance has your intermixing included lower castes and if not why not.what about tamils or bengalis or yadevs .
these are all hindu people.be honest .how many peoples parents had arranged marriages.most sikhs and jats did and still do and by its nature it means,you marry your own kind.now this is modern times.in the olden days this situation applied more .many many brit authors have studied this over hundreds of years,so tarun can be say what he likes--he aint no expert.he will be lucky if he knows himself the time he spends worrying his life away about jats lately.

anonymous--you are so right.

thats why i have been against sikhs explaining themselves to this twerp.you see all this hindu patrioism is a new thing and feeling for them ,india handed to them on a plate.everyone else namely sikhs 80% doing the fighting and the dying for independence and thru red tape hindu india have managed to tie up the 2% that make up sikhs and they feel real big.aint they just.its a pity all this fighting ego wasnt about at partition and independence.now sikhs have learnt never to trust these cunning people--too late i reckon but cunningness is not the same as bravery.this tarun 's only point is to hilight little sikh niggles--like the brar.well one of these elected is not a pattern.and we are talking about india here.where corruption is daily bread and why not in the polling booth.anything has a price.read up on sikhs--20 years is nothing--we have long memories.wait and see.

indira was a pattern but no tarun will say no we dont vote em in now.well 50 years makes a voting pattern and sonia is ready to come in.

as for the present day inhabitants of ukraine you ullu pratt tarun--they are slavs not scythians.get reading before commenting.all the scythians dispersed from greater scythia over a certain timespan.the area that you are refferring to is scythia that was.the people are not the scythians or the decendents of.at least 20-30 % of jatts have lite hair and eyes and thats also research but whats your problem?

maybe you want to say we are like you--is that your ruddy point--well sorry the feeling aint mutual.its nothing we ourselves are saying.its recorded history and i can and most punjabis can tell whats what.other indians can tell--if you cant or wont--thats your problem.personally.i too think you have a phobia about jats,about sikhs and punjab and considering you keep suggesting differences and likeness at one and the same time--i wonder at the state of your health.

as i say--we are flattered-you take up so much time out-talking and disputing with us.you must be facinated.cant say i blame you---we are originals and thats why we are so much written about by all nationalities!.

Tajneen Il-Uddin Khan,

Arjun lal chand,Rajput bettey,please go away and find out for yourself who the Rajputs came from,what they did to become Kshatriya caste,and the epitome of kissing someone's ass and cleaning it with their tongues.Please,I will be amused.I find it extremely distasteful that a weasly 'Rajput' can bark like a kuttey di l_und about 'sullahs' demolishing mandirs and trying to destroy Hinduism.
PS.Malhotra are meant to be ancient Kshatriya,not Rajput.You cant even speak Punjabi!

First off, cunt, got it all wrong. Check for yourself, Rajputs in Rajasthan are ALL Kshatriyas. Kshatriyas were Aryas, always will be Aryas, and that's that. I ain't got no fascination for Jats. So I ain't gonna research. Rajputs have been around during Alexander's time, (Porus was a Rajput, Prithvi Raj Chauhan was too). So I have no idea what it is that you're trying to get across, but its pretty BAD. My God.

Tarun, right on the spot. I myself have green eyes, and from my baby pictures, I was somewhat a dirty blonde. Even some of my Indian cousins have brown hair. But ALL Jats have been assimilated. They might have different characteristics, SOME of them. But on the whole, I see no spectacular difference between, say, Jats, and maybe Aryas.

All, i've been following this board for the last few days. It is interesting how much ego people have in questioning religions saying they are good/bad!

Firstly. A hindu/Tarun? I think. Why are you so obsessed with this sikh/hindu overlap? OKay you want answers, I think this is not the best place to go about it. Noting by your tone I feel that even though you say sikhism is different from hinduism your questions some how are mis-leading and quantify that you do believe this is true.

I think it was you who was talking about Picture worshipping and so forth! Well just about every gurdwara in India/uk have pictures up. I believe that the pictures are there to help you focus, otherwise our minds start to wonder! But then I don't know of anyone actually bowing down to pictures, its always to the sri guru grant sahib. That is not qualified as picture worshipping!

I can go on and try and answer the rest of the questions you guys put up. But its not worth the time and space to argue with some of you guys, because you guys don't take any thing in, but instead come back with even more twisted questions and try to catch each other out.

Taj/Cooljat - Reading the posts for the last few days I can understand your anger, but you guys must not forget that you should respect other religions and more importantly not to bow to them either. So cut down on the religion cursing.

I think you guys shouldn't waste your time here with some of these ignorant people. They have huge ego's, I think they should instead of spending their time writing and questioning our faith, actually go and do naam simran and learn about our religion spritually. Only then they will get a taste on what it is about, actually I can't believe some of the comments they have made on our religion. I didn't think hindu people talk like this about our people and religion.

Take a look at yourselves first. Question yourself first are you being the best hindu/sikh/muslim whatever. Then go and question others or even the faiths! Believe me if any of you guys were, you wouldn't be here on this site questioning sikhism to no-end.

A JAT,

* I'm gonna spell it in a language that you'll understand - current day Uzbekistanis and Ukranians etc are fair (gora fair).Many have blonde hair and blue eyes.Jatt Sikhs,on the other hand,are fair (Indian fair) and don't have blonde hair and blue eyes.(Maybe one in a thousand might have blue/green eyes).They mostly have black hair and brown eyes.There are the odd ones with the orangey-ginger tints to their beards - Arabs and muslims have that as well.And their migrations to the sub-continent are far more well documented.
So here's what I'm trying to say (IF BS Dhillon's theory is correct) - the jatts came and engaged in a big sexual frenzy with the natives.Shagged and shagged till a "ruddy" new race was created. Understood?

* Malwa Brars point :- Abe Ulloo ! Don't give me that "20 years is a short time" bukwaas - the Sikhs (Brars of Faridkot-Moga-Ferozepur) have been voting in INDIRA'S Party in even today. Jagmeet Brar (Congress) - his constituency is Faridkot.
So,before you whinge about hindus starving but still voting in "Mother Indira",as you put it,Sikhs have been at it just as much !

* Anyways,now hindus don't vote in trash like the Congress. BJP mate,BJP. 53% of the country voted for them in the last elections. They've done a decent job so far in their tenure and look like staying. They'll be the major party in the next election,and will edge even closer to that 66% majority.
Oh,and the Sikhs have already started following that trend as well. Vinod Khanna from Gurdaspur.

Good Day to you,
Rab Raakha,
Tarun.

you deaf/dumb prat tarun.

how can i or you give the voting pattern for malwa brars.anybody can take a guess--thickhead and thats the reason i didnt answer-so what ruddy point is that.i am not a malwa brar either but i do know that that is sikh hard core country .has been from day one and i tell you this--sikhs never forget--and this is only 20 years so wait and see.the other thing is--there cannot have been intermixing or intermarriage except among riff raff folk.your own caste system and the indian arranged marriage systems sees to that.its undisputed that jatts are a race of people-not a caste.even my hindu punjabi pals remark on that and the racial type.another thing they mention is that non punjabis are weird,meaning different and strange racial types.if they find non punjabis strange--pal--we will.and no scythians are not neccessaryly blonde and blue eyed.the nordics are that way after 2000 years in europe and we have that in punjab.but the basic race is the same.

whats the hindu pattern for voting in muslim indira gandhi.very high (she was in office)even if they got no food in there belly and living on the pavements.whats the propaganda pattern on hindu masses.very high--coz we seen the gandhis elected in and we seen hindus masses living on pavements crying for hindu mother india/indira(on her death) when all the time she is anything but.

now thats got meat and substance--get your head round that but maybe its too complicted and subtle for you.
the point about hindus drinking and carrying on is in response to you saying sikhs drink but shouldnt.coz they shouldnt but neither should hindus.whatever point you were making--thats what i was making.the same point.

you dont have pubs opposite mandhirs,maybe true but you have meat eating and drinking in mandhirs.i dont like to say it and i was shocked to see it but here,now in england--i have seen it--all so called family top notch pillars of society.pandits allowed it.

and the way you talk as if the gurdwara say- can you build a pub there.you know the planning laws here are to do with the council,not individuals .this isnt india where you can throw up a couple of bricks at whim.

i see you cant answer anything straight forward but throw in stupid repition and keep telling yourself how smart you are.thats typical and sly hindu.
try to think up some further mischief to keep your little mind amused.good day.

A Jat,
Hinduism says clearly you CAN NOT drink,take intoxicating substance,can not eat meat and can only have sex for pro-creation purposes only - that is all in the Geeta. Many hindus today in good ol' England and USA,men women and children drink -- so what ? MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS DON'T. I drink . What's ur point ?
Sikhism says "no" to booze as well.But still so many do it. What's ur point ? Booze is "haraam" in Islam - I know sooo many muslims that drink ! What is your point? Every one drinks - that is no reason to put one religion down,or say one is failing ...

(On a lighter note - it's not us hindus who build our places of worship opposite Panjabi pubs ! You should see it on Vasakhi. Guy walks out of pub and into Gurdwara,or vice-versa.You gave a stooooopid example of a hindu wedding where everyone got pissed.First go check out your own Vasakhi and what your naujawan and elders,I might add too,get upto!)

The Malwa Brar's voting thing hasn't been answered time and time again.You blind prat.Taj just answered it for the first time today.But,I notice -- no response from A JAt. Maybe 'cos you don't know anything - idda kar, jaake apni Ajeet/Des Pardes khol la te changi tareh parr la !!!

Tarun.

Taj,

I know sikhs and hindus are separate and distinct religions.No where have I ever said "sikhs are hindus" etc. I recognise that you are a not hindu.I've never called you one,and if it's come across like I've implied it - then,I apologise.

I'm not here to fight or make enemies - just to debate.

* My point is - there are several overlaps.The ones I've listed are good examples and can't be denied. You talk of the 'shabad' and it's links to Christianity/Judaism - I agree with you,and I don't doubt it. You talk of the 5 Ks and it's similarities/links with the 5 pillars of Islam - I don't doubt that either. Sikhism has much from many other religions.
I can see why people like Jarnail Singh got concerned - if the sikh isn't religious,then the similarities in culture and lifestyle become even more apparent.

* As for Karvachauth - I think deprave is the wrong word to use. 'Useless','Alien','Unnecessary' are better.'Deprave' is the sort of word I'm more likely to use when describing Basic Instinct or something like that.

* Back to an old point (which I'd like you to expand on a little further than you did last time) - if there was a Khalistan or Independent Sikh Panjab, would you/you not create a "Sikhi Law" (somewhat similar to Shariah) - what are your views on (i)Alcohol (ii) Tobacco (iii) Meat (iv) Non-sikh practices prevalent in today's Panjabi/Sikh societies eg,Rakhri,Karvachauth ?

* I remember you want a similar state to the Russian/E.European Communist states of yesteryear - what you do about jatt land-holdings. Would there be a re-distribution of land as per Communistic views?

* Finally all this talk of jatts and them never accepting hinduism - I find it all hard to believe. Whilst you do have BS Dhillon backing your claims,there still are Pawar's and Quanungo's theories. IF some of these theories are true - and jatts never did take to hinduism or brahminism or whatever you wish to call it - why are there no pure Scythian sikhs today ? There must have been interbreeding over the years,which to me,must imply that there was some sort of acceptance and integration with the host community. If not - then there'd be some blue eyed blonde haired singhs walking about,and I don't mean the American variety.

Anyways,reply please.
Tarun.


PS:- Amrit lives in Leeds.I live in Essex.I'm already seeing someone.We just email every now and then.Nothing sinister going on !

hello there tarun/a hindu or whatever you people are calling yourself today.

you say that my point about hindus drinking has no meaning and has been reduced to rubble.hows that then---just coz you say so--well it dont work that way tarun.i seen these hindus,who are very respectful of sikhs,i may add,unlike present company--i seen them still drinking,smoking--man,woman and teenagers.no worrys and not reduced to rubble.your actual bakwas is reduced to rubble but you cant accept it.

if drinking is against hindism and these people still partake--thats the same as any stupid sikhs who partake--so your so called augument is rubble but coz your a bit slow it takes you longer to register.

as for the questions you have put to me,tarun--these people have answered them time and again but coz you cant accept it,you think,i will pose it again and then act all smarty pants .
as regards the hindu rituals you mention,i cant tell you about them,coz me and most sikhs dont know or like them.last thing is that on what basis are you an authority to ask questions.

you say that you dont worship at the alter of the gandhis.you say that now but all did and how.and you got taken in--all the billion of you to consider them your end-all and be-all.
and that despite them being muslims.
your so called alter ego even has the nerve to indicate that castes have nothing to do with hinduism.man you have to be cracked---hindus invented castes--the whole religion is based on it and the rest is myth.
and if you people in the space of 4000 years did not establish where your own god's were born and its only now that you have "decided"-----you have no moral or relgious authority to question sikhs.and i am against any sikhs explaining things to you.they have already done so but as i said,if you are too thick--its something you going to have to deal with yourself.

Taj,

I have no fascination with Brars - though one of my oldest and better friends is a Brar from Faridkot.

Anyways,I think the voting thing is a killer point.See- Jarnail Singh was a Brar.Major-General Brar was a Brar.Both from the same region. Post '84, the Congress (of all parties) seems to have it's stronghold in them very same regions of Panjab (Ferozepur-Moga-Faridkot),which I must say,I find really interesting.Harcharan Singh Brar of the Congress Party (from Faridkot/Muktsar region) was CM there for a year in 95-96.Currently Jagmeet Brar is standing as the Congress Party leader (again from the same region).Long-time female politician,Gurbinder Kaur Brar (wife of Harcharan Singh Brar) too has been elected as an MP from the same region.
HMMMM...Post '84 - Separatist Akali leaders like Simranjit Singh Maan emerged as a force.However,they got voted in from other parts of Panjab,but not from Jarnail Singh's areas.

Hi there, taj or jat or cooljat or what ever you like to call yourself,

OK, lets take it further then

So do you consider yourself as Muslim Jatt, Hindu Jatt or Jatt Jatt (I think I know what your answer is going to be, but I thought I hear it from the “horses” mouth). Is there actually something as a Jatt Jatt or you can only be Muslim Jatt or Hindu Jatt?.

And this thing about “fierce meat eating and drinking” that you said is associated with the identity of the Jatt, and the fact that you say you don’t eat meat or drink alcohol and no one in your extended family has touched a single drop of alcohol or eaten a meat in their lives (I hope this is the truth and you are not lying just to cover your back! Remember not a teaching of the Sikh religion), so are you now saying Jatts are non-drinkers and vegetarians?

Lalley

'a) having this strong cultural identity, convert to Sikhism and dilute your identity? Surely the Jatt identity would have been powerful to survive on their own enough? Or was there something missing from in being a Jatt and just having meat and alcohol Jatt that forced the Jatts to convert to Sikhism?'

Have you heard of such a thing as Culture/Ethnicity (Jatt)and Religion(Sikhism)?There are also Muslim Jatts and Hindu Jatts.Jattism has nothing to do with religion,it's a wordly thing,put it in the context of ethnicity.The Jatts finally attained a true spiritual identity,just,republican,independent etc.The most important relation between the two is perhaps Jattism is regulated by Sikhism,not to think youre better than another Sikh,to keep your ego in check,that you are equal to all Sikhs,being Jatt cannot really affect the way you are as a Sikh.And I dont eat meat or drink,and neither does anyone in my family.Drinking is endemic among Sikhs,but not as bad as Hindus are accustomed to mass murder and rape.About Hindu laallian drinking at Hindu weddings,I have heard the same thing too.

'b) if the Jatts were the founders of Sikhism then why allow Hindus (the people you most disliked) in your religion? If you have allowed these Hindus in your religion, then are they on equal terms as the Jatts of inferior?'

What the bloody hell are you on about?The Hindus of today have shown what a bastard people they are.The Gurus rejected Hinduism and their thinking and teachings are very very close to Sufism.The Guru's when they were born as Hindus but upon attaining mukti chose a different path and therein lies the appeal.It has nothing to do with them coming from Hindu families.Youre the Hindu I hate with a vengeance.

'If they were inferior then is this not implicit caste system?
c) Why do the Jatts still distinguish themselves as Jatts in the Sikh religion? I though being a Sikh meant that that there was one identity and everyone who was a Sikh was equal! So why not just say you are a Sikh?'

Exactly what I have been saying and everyone else.You must think youre smart to regurgitate that endlessly repeated truth.The Jatts were before the caste system and are still today after the Gurus done away with the bahmanical crap.No Sikh,of whatever 'caste' or nationality is better than the other and they must treat each other with respect.If you think we have a caste system then it bloody well isnt as depraved and racist and hierarchical as your Hindu lalla one.Jatts are an ethnic group but they were made into a caste by you cow dung eating rat worshipping bahman bastards.Culture and Religion are two entirely different entities.Look at Hindu bahman gujjus,will they be happy for a Hindu lalla bahman 'Punjabi' marrying their daughter?They would prefer a like for like.Italian Catholics and Irish ones arent exactly to get going are they.Why?Difference of culture.All Sikhs are the same,but the Jatts were a caste in lalla bahman eyes,but we have always been Jatts,ethnic group with central asian Scythian blood upon entering North India.But we are Sikhs first and foremost.Sikhs love for Sikhs first and Sikhs only.

'Q2. “If Sikhism was appealing to both Hindu and Muslim, then what proportion of the Muslims took on Sikhism as their religion?'

That I dont know,but Ajmer Singh,a prominent Khalsa Sikh in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time was a Muslim but converted.The Nihangs(Khalsa warrior sect) were Muslim at first,Mughal death squads.And the Sikhs from Afghanistan were Muslim too.

Do you get sexual thrills out of this?

Hi there taj or jat (you big bad fierce meat eater and drinker, you bad boy)

As you seem to be in the swing of answering questions I though I might try couple of questions (out of many) that I did not get answers on earlier:


Q1. “This question on the Jatts, if the Jatts were known to be fierce meat eaters and drinkers, maintained their surnames and their culture independent and separate of the Hindu religion, ruled North India for 700, then why:

a) having this strong cultural identity, convert to Sikhism and dilute your identity? Surely the Jatt identity would have been powerful to survive on their own enough? Or was there something missing from in being a Jatt and just having meat and alcohol Jatt that forced the Jatts to convert to Sikhism?
b) if the Jatts were the founders of Sikhism then why allow Hindus (the people you most disliked) in your religion? If you have allowed these Hindus in your religion, then are they on equal terms as the Jatts of inferior? If they were inferior then is this not implicit caste system?
c) Why do the Jatts still distinguish themselves as Jatts in the Sikh religion? I though being a Sikh meant that that there was one identity and everyone who was a Sikh was equal! So why not just say you are a Sikh?

Q2. “If Sikhism was appealing to both Hindu and Muslim, then what proportion of the Muslims took on Sikhism as their religion?

Answers please.

A Hindu.

Now its your turn T.

'I do however believe that,there are many overlaps and to pull out foolish statements like "sikhism is more like judaism or christianity" etc is crap.'

Since you know it all,please explain the correlation between Shabad and the Word (John) of Christianity;please explain similarities between the 5 Pillars of Islam and the 5 Rehats of Sikhism;degh-tegh and charity,helping the poor (Islam and Christianity);monotheism,Judaism,Christianity,Islam,Sikhism;idol worship as anathema to Pure Sikhism,Gurbani wise,and the same thing in Islam and Judaism;against caste system,Sikhism and Buddhism;good deeds,again check the other religions.There are far too many to list.Now account for these.
Consider this please,as I feel it sums up that all the worlds religions are branches of the same tree,though I do not appreciate being called a Hindu.See it like this;Shabad being the crucial link between guru and God-'Bani Guru, Guru hai Bani vich, Bani amrit saray'.Bani=Shabad=Guru=Vaheguru.
Now Christ and the WORD.In John, it says,'In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD,Anything made that,was made through it,And the WORD was made flesh to dwell among us'.

'* You talk of transmigrations through life.That too,is hindu.To be precise - sikhs also believe that there are 84 million lifecycles before they can achieve SachKhand (Nirvana in Hindu/Buddhist terms).'

Agreed.I dont dispute that but what else is new?And Nirvana is Buddhism,and Buddhists dont believe in God,they believe in the Being of Buddha.SachKhand is is our original home,God,WaheGuru,Allah.Please do inform me of how Hinduism interprets this.Im lacking here.

'* Moh,Labh,Kaam,Krodh and Hankaar are most definitely of a Hindu background,and not an Islamic one.I can't use the exact Sanskrit because I don't know it,but 3 of them 5 are the same in Sanskrit,two are different words.'

Yes they are!So the other two dont exist in Hinduism then or am I reading it wrongly?There is definitely an Islamic expression,because there is a quote in the Quran by the Prophet and funnily enough it is the same thing;I will find it for you as best I can.Islam means Submission,ie of everything to the Supreme Will of Allah.

'* I thought you said you were from Moga district. PatoSingh pend or something like that you said.I know they're real close to each other,but anyways ... Minor point.'

Thats true,Im from Moga area.The Brar Jatts are very prominent there.We cover something like 8 villages almost exclusively,and we are all over the other parts too.From Patto Hira Singh,many of the local Brars joined Akaal Fauj of Guru Gobind Singh Ji,and Ive been told me and my cousins are the descendants of some 'great Shaheed' but they bloody well dont write his name in the letters they send us.We had a prayer and langar for the eldest of all the families concerned,and they dont even know his name.How unbelievable is that?Ill wait for my dada's brother from Scotland to visit us and Ill ask him but the pindus revere him as a 'Baba';there's a Gurdwara in his memory in the pind.Our pind also covers the route of Guru Ji ka Marg.In the Zafarnama (?) Guru Gobind Singh Ji mentions the Brars but Ive heard the Brars did get greedy.In another letter the Brars sent to Aurangzeb they inform him of their decision to convert to Sikhi proper and pledge to fight him.Apparently,once a gorri friend of mine went to live in India,and she stayed with a Brar family.I asked her where they were from,and she said 'Patiala'!We are supposed to be a subset of the aristocratic Sidhu clan,so dont be surprised to hear a surname like SidhuBrar.

'* Slight digression - back to Malwa baatein - I've been doing a bit of research here.Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale was from Malwa right? Well, since '84 why has that Faridkot-Moga-Ferozepur region been a Congress party stronghold ? Khalistanis like SS Maan have managed to get votes etc from other regions on Panjab, but why are Jarnail Singh's areas so Congress-fied? To be precise the Brars (listed under "Prakash Badal - Sikh Traitor" thread) have used Faridkot as their consituency.And for 1 year,under Narismha Rao, Harcharan Singh Brar was the CM (but was changed when IK Gujral took over,and Rajinder Kaur Bhattal took over).
Can you as a Malwa Brar with Khalistani views offer an explanation ...'

Your guess is as good as mine.I am a Khalistani now and Im prepared to admit Brars can be kuttey too,I know this.Kalla hi Sant Ji changa nikklia.Only he was good and one in a million.You know these pindus,too many of them are beimaan lokk,ready to screw you and thats the only reason why Sikhs failed in the 1980's,treachery.
And what is your ruddy obsession with Brars.You keep on mentioning the name.Are you seeing AKB?
My cousin (Brar,4th gen.) is definitely the biggest Punjabi I have seen ever and possibly anyone else.He is bloody huge,way out of proportion for an average Jatt;big limbs,20 stone,big frame,6'5''.A big momma.One of my friends,has a lot of cousins here and they are all muscular and big too,and very tough.

'* You asked me why Hindu Panjabi Jats took to sikhi - I don't know.But,many didn't.One suggestion,apart from spiritual enlightenment,might be that they were shudre as hindus and "THE JATS" under sikhism. Soch la'

Read Dhillon's book,you'll be shocked.Your assertion has been smashed,again,in advance.Jattan nu,Jattan de,Jattan da,all throughout the milleniums.We played the biggest part in Punjab,from Porus Jatt to Ranjit Singh.But I want unconditional All Round Sikh Unity,and ethnicity cant affect your service and merits.Sikhs love for Sikhs first and Sikhs only.Anyone can be a Gabroo.

'* How is Karvachauth deprave ? Tuhaanu "Deprave" da matlab pata hai ? How is fasting deprave ? And if so, why do so many sikh ladies do it ?'

If Im correct,Karvachauth is when a female has to fast for her husband,another bahman trick.That is against Sikhism and it is depraved for a Sikh woman to do this.Maybe Sikh ladies do it for perhaps they are far too sexual.

T,the first Sikhs were Hindu,and Sikhism has its' roots in these particular Hindus and it is separate from Hinduism though there are some similarities but you guys need to stop looking at this thing in isolation;Hinduism is mystic,paganistic,ritualitisc,much of it is false (but carry on believing and if more crap comes,Ill get more offensive)Hindus have a long shameful history and are still at it,and Hindus believe in idols and false practices;none of this recurs in Sikhism,in the Scriptures or the history and maryada,it shares many traits with all the world's faiths and hence it is a religion,not a branch of anything but of faith in the Almighty.For Hindus to keep up,it is strictly political,designed to upset people.I know I hate Hindus.To be honest I do admire Islam for some things,more than Hinduism,e.g.they are not allowed to keep the Prophet's photo,and they always never fail to mention the Name of Allah,Maa'sh'Allah,InShahAllah,Allah Willing etc.If you look at the Quran only,it appears to be pretty comprehensive and my God it has the same tone,reverence and phrases as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.I like the way they sing their namaz (I think),its sometimes on Zee TV;what's all that Islamic singing praises called.Its just their fundies that make my blood boil and I would never convert;Sikhism is far too good,for me that is.Keep this up I say,your people want a confrontation and ill feeling.I am not a Hindu.

Arjun lal chand,Rajput bettey,please go away and find out for yourself who the Rajputs came from,what they did to become Kshatriya caste,and the epitome of kissing someone's ass and cleaning it with their tongues.Please,I will be amused.I find it extremely distasteful that a weasly 'Rajput' can bark like a kuttey di l_und about 'sullahs' demolishing mandirs and trying to destroy Hinduism.
PS.Malhotra are meant to be ancient Kshatriya,not Rajput.You cant even speak Punjabi!

Today I had the privlege of hearing Beowulf in not Modern English, not Old English, not Middle English, but pure, unadulterated Germanic Anglo-Saxon!!! The man reciting was from Boston (Savraj, do you know of him), and his name's Thomas Bagby. The guy accompanied himself with a lyre, and his voice was BOOMING, he didn't even need a mike, in a stadium of 8,000 people. It was one of the most interesting experiences I have ever had.

Malhotra Lalley Mahasha

'And let's go to my "bhabhi". She married a Hindu, so what?'

Just hit the rounds of traitors among the Sikhs.A Sikh girl dates and marries a 'sullah';so what?What business is it any of Arjun lalla?

'Hindus and Sikhs have been marrying for centuries.'

Its not accepted here on this site but in your sick lurid world it is.It should not be allowed and the Kharkua Jhujharus should set aside death squads to punish these deviations in morality,any Sikh Hindu marriage under the pain of death.

'They're not going to stop on account of some PRICK who thinks that they should stop.'

By that reasoning Sikhs will also marry Muslims,and Arjun lal chand will have nothing to do with it,its' none of your business so f. off.

'Anyways, my brother would make fuckin BONEFEED out of your carcass. He's 6'2", (just one inch smaller than me), and is gentle in appearance, but cross him, and he's a MOUNTAIN OUT FOR MURDER. It's best to keep you informed.'

You and your brother come my way;I am 6'3'',12 stone,medium to muscular build,ready to hand anyone their nose,and my brother is also 6'3'',but built like a bloody brickhouse,all 15 stone of him.I would dare anyone to mess with him,you see what happens.I tripple dare any of you.Actually he'll just stand there and laugh his head off,watching a typical skinny Hindu trying to push or punch him,but the poor rat worshipping cow dung eating Hindu bastard roll over again and again.He could make it as a professional streetfighter.We'll make you both men.You fuddu lalla,what use is it to threaten me all the way from the Lone Star State?Your hypocrisy is making me more angry to read.

'he's a MOUNTAIN OUT FOR MURDER. It's best to keep you informed.'

Oooh.Is he in London by any chance?I would be delighted to meet him.Send your bhabhi here too.

'If you had been in front of me, I swear, you or anybody else, (whether he's Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Christian), would not have fuckin kneecaps.'

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

'Anyways gotta start about the cow dung prasad.'

I swear its' true some loopy Hindus do this and I saw a documentary on National Geographic where some Hindus in North East India drink rat piss as a spiritual ailment!

'You do celebrate Hindu festivals. One's called Diwali, and the other Baisakhi.'

Some Sikhs take it too far.I only celebrate Diwali for fireworks,though Im aware Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji returned from Gwalior on that day.Vaisakhi for us mahasha,the birth of the Khalsa.Thats as far as it goes.

'And Hinduism was never forced unto anyone as well.'

Again,where do you get the nerve to ignore your own evil,as the Hindu race.You guys are so cheeky man,'oh it doesnt happen here'.Vedic Hinduism,its' core being bahmanical teachings,was forced on the Dravidians,the lower castes in the North.Are you suffering from amnesia,I mean you have heard of the caste system havent you,and the Buddhists and the Jains,labelled Hindus under Article 25?And the thesis Sikhism is Hinduism is another attempt to forcibly assimilate Sikhism;why else would you be in our faces like that?

I swear every one of you Hindus is starting to piss me off.I dont think anyone of you wants to f. with me.Try eating less of those cow dung delicacies,because you guys are so full of it.I have a Honshu Samurai sword sitting idly and motionless on my window sill.If I f.ing lose it,Ill run into the local mandir and slice n' dice my way through your congregation.I hate you guys so badly,and the Hindus around me are putting up with all kinds.

A Jat,

I'm a hindu - yeah... so what of it ?!

"My questions have been answered time and time again" ... and "I talk in circles" ...
Acha OK then answer the questions I asked Taj (refer to my posting on Sun.26th Nov at 12:28pm) which he hasn't replied back to:-

1) Offer an insight on the voting patterns of Malwa Brars (post 84).
2) Offer an explanation as to why Karvachauth is "deprave".
3) Offer an explanation that denies the hindu roots of sikhi in certain aspects,namely (i) 84 thousand lifecycles and rebirths(ii)Moh,Labh,Kaam,Krodh and Hankar (iii)Kal Yug [and the other 3 yugs too] (iv)Hindu links mentioned in Dasam Granth ...

No one,not even Taj or the educated likes of Arjun SD,Sunny Singh or XXX has offered any explanations on them 3 questions of mine.So,I don't know how they've been answered "time and time again",as you put it.
A JAT - I put to you.Answer my points.EITHER PUT UP OR SHUT UP.SIMPLE.

Tarun.

Who Cockjatt, said that? Bhindranwale?

First of all, a very pleasant "•••• you" for writing shit about my father.

No expects you to give up your independence, you fuckin heehaw. I've seen Sikhs make it BIG there, and its true, some anti-Sikh complacency is there, but what can I do?

As for Hindus running away, let me mention Gurkhas, Marattas, Shivaja, and (me representing) Rajputs.

Have a very good night.

Do not underestimate the GREED of the "HINDU MIND"

How many great leaders have made this comment, & how
true they are.

Listen here you BHARAT bumboy, you ain't making sense,
stop coming here in between 2 sikhs that are trying to
have a conversation, did your skirt wearing father
never teach you any manners.

We stand as an independent people that will not lower
ourselves to your DOGGY ways, we don't wanna mix your
hindu crap with our GLORIOUS HISTORY & sacrifices.

Sikhs were foremost in FRONT in the good old days when
you bharat bumboys were running, we did all the fighting & you lot did all the running, now we are
treated as INDIA's worst citizens, were laughed at,
humiliated, our state gets 1% of the total budget, i
mean who the •••• do you think you are - you act like
the frontmen for the British in INDIA, like you did in the OLD days.

The response to whole Mahasa bit,

TajNEEN Khan,
First of all, let's get one thing clear. You did say shit about my relatives, and my aunt. No she didn't reject Hinduism totally, but her sons are raised as Sikhs, Ranbir and Amardeep. BIG JAT DUDES, who really would kill if the name of their mother's "IZAAT" depended on it.

And let's go to my "bhabhi". She married a Hindu, so what? Hindus and Sikhs have been marrying for centuries. They're not going to stop on account of some PRICK who thinks that they should stop. No. Anyways, my brother would make fuckin BONEFEED out of your carcass. He's 6'2", (just one inch smaller than me), and is gentle in appearance, but cross him, and he's a MOUNTAIN OUT FOR MURDER. It's best to keep you informed.

And let's not forget about my ex-girlfriend. (Don't think the break up was an interracial thing, just she skipped a smemester of high school to head on early to college.) If you had been in front of me, I swear, you or anybody else, (whether he's Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Christian), would not have fuckin kneecaps. You don't see me talking about your girls, (or maybe "munde"), your relatives, or anything, so drop it. It's me you are against, not them.

Anyways gotta start about the cow dung prasad. What White Supremacy bit did you get that off of? I've never seen it, will never see it, and maybe you might conjure it up in a dream someday, I don't know.

And we don't see me offering food to Mickey Mouse, do we?

Agree with you in the third part. there never has been an idol in a Gurdwara, and there never should be.

You do celebrate Hindu festivals. One's called Diwali, and the other Baisakhi.

I've heard about a Tarkhaan couple doing it, but they were hated for something they did to the Sikh community here.

I agree with you totally there.

Because our freaked out ways suit us.

No expects you to.

Repeat

Remember, you have to swallow ecstacy, not smoke it.

And Hinduism was never forced unto anyone as well.

Hi there jats, its me again

Contradiction again on your previous posting.

“its very accepted and always has been in hindu circles for females to drink coz they think that they are modern and all that.thats where some of the sikhs have picked it up from and we should not”

What a load of nonsense, your points have been reduce to rubble and has no meaning. Are these the same “fierce meat eaters and drinkers”, who have picked up drinking habits from Hindu females?

Come on guys surely even you can come up with a better statement that. Can’t you?


PS: look I aint T or Tarun, so stop blaming the wrong guy. Or do you guys just like to gang up on a single person?

well you proved one ruddy thing tarun--that you are "a hindu."

your waffle being all your so called questions ,which have been answered time and time again but still you come back with the same stock waffle---oh you cant answer--oh i am so intelligent--oh you people swear--blah blah blah blah---we've heard it all before.talking round and round in ruddy circles is a hindu trait and you just cant help it.it makes you feel clever,but i am afraid it takes more than that .

as for your ruddy swearing--i aint impressed and you know what you can do with it.enjoy yourself!

A Jat,

Tu ki bolee janda ?

Which "waffle" are you talking about ?
I have given valid points to which you can't respond - just the same crappy usual A Jat response - "ruddy this" "ruddy that".

And where have I insulted religions,you lunnd ???
I have said FACTS -- 5 sins and transmigrations are hindu philosophies -- counter that with arguments not your usual ruddy bukwaas ! Changa ?

Tarun

like i said ,hindu/tarun--yes you are one--we have no need to asnwer to you and i am personally annoyed that the other sikhs did.

you can convince yourself all you like.you havent got a leg to stand on.yours is a fragmented and nothing so called augument.its a load of rubbish and you think by making a longwinded post you can be clever clever and pat yourself on the back.go ahead mate--the only ice,youre cutting is a hindu ice.how can you understand sikhi when you know nothing about hindism.

i aint one to insult religions like you but lets just say,hindism is the same waffle that your speaking.you have been led by the nose by waqfflers and you come here waffling and as if to say--there thats it--no augument there.

anyway--please be in touch with "yourself" tarun and you can both "waffle" together.

i notice that you fail to answer some very key rudiments of hindism and indian life and i wonder why that is.

lastly,tarun--i think you know,how i am as regards that green and pleasant land and its nice to know how interested you hindus are in sikhs and jats.

i wish i could say that we sikhs care two hoots about hindus and there bag and baggage,either way but there you go ,thats life for ya.

sat siri akal to all sikhs and punjabis.

Hindu,

RATED ! You got some "gyaan" on you !
Are you in the UK ?(email me on the link if u are)

A JAT,

For the last "ruddy" time -- I don't do anonymouses! I can't help it if some new guy surfs in and puts his views in (which don't agree with yours or Tajs) !

Anyways,
Tarun.

PS:- A Jat, your argument about sikhs and booze and comparing it to hindus and boozing is silly. Pointless arguments. As both have their fair share of piss-heads.

PPS:- Don't worship Indira mate.Hate the Gandhis.Hate Mahatma.Hate anything and everything to do with Congress. I wish I could find that NathuRam Godse link. Anyways ...

Hi there jatts,

OK. So now you can go back to M/F this and M/F that, the normal conversation and general chit chat with no facts or truth. The real intellectual stuff, eh!.

And if it ever gets to a discussion stage, and you are unable to make a point, you can defend your position by saying "we have no need to discuss with your so called point because any other language it’s known as waffle".

The only waffle I am afraid is in your answer (or should I say lack of them).

A Hindu.

PS I was glad to see not a single swear word in last two positing, something clicked? However, the facts in the posting still remain beer talk. So what new there?