the muslims and pakistan punjab have destroyed the reputation of punjabis as being brave people thank god for the sikhs to save that reputation because everyone knows pakistani muslims were converted by the sword theri ancestors converted when the turks invaded their ancestors converted out of fear. Since so many punjabis are muslims and really gives punjabis a bad name.

Punjab Is only comeplted if there are 5 rivers. now we are devided. neither india's or Pak's punjab is complete. we are incomeplete without each other. we should not forget the punjab of maharaja Ranjit sigh. India was seprate and punjab(including current day pakistan and kashmir, Haryana and Himachal) was seprate. all Sikh, Hindu and muslims lived happily. we celebrated Eid, Vaskhi, Lohri, Divali, Basant together. It was Maharaja Ranjit singh asked his ppl to wear orange on Basant. People in pak still follow that but indian side of punjab has forgot this. WE SHOULD NOT FORGET BAGHAT SINGH WAS ALSO FROM PAKISTAN(LYLPUR; NOW FAISLABAD)LONG LIVE PUNJAB. kari kite mel rabba dili te lahore da...(a song by ks Makhan; must listen all punjabis)

Editor sab da message bohat acha hei, mein late perheya per mein khush han k jidan editor sab sochde hein, kaash asin vi positive soch rakheyh, mera vee sab bro te sis chahay O punjabi hei ya non punjabi, please muhabbat wando, ik doojay naal acha verta karo, duniyaa nu pyar da ghar banao religion baray kisi nu vee hate na karo, Rab ne sab insaan barabar banaye hein is kar k ik doojay te mehar karo, banda vi khush te Rab vi khush.

wese vee punjabiyaan de dil bohat wadday hunde hein, sab naal pyar karo te khush raho

Rab rakha

I agree with the message of Muhafiz. But is there any precedent anywhere on Earth for what Brother Muhafiz envisions?

I am from East Punjab but I still view Punjab as one.I feel more comfortable in relating to a Punjabi from West Punjab as compared to someone from Tamilnadu or Karnatka or even Bengal. Second biggest bond between people is language (first being the blood relation).Governments of both India and Pakistan are trying their best to keep Punjabis from both sides of the border, away from each other which is wrong and based on their own insecurities.India and Pakistan are two independent countries and nobody disputes that,but politicians on both sides are doing injustice to the Punjabis by not letting them intermingle without restrictions.Borders should be opened and there should be minimum visa requirememts which should be fulfilled at local level.Otherwise,when punjabis realize that they should be one,neither India nor Pakistan will be able to stop them.

Dear Brother Muhafiz ji

Pl join our new portal from front page http://punjabi.net

Your message is very beautiful and it must reach the whole audience.

Please keep it up. Your idea will be come a reality in a few years.

network

We are promoting Punjabi Sufi Wisdom and now we have our own site: www.sufiwisdom.org Through this site we are introducing our books on Punjabi Sufi Poets. Our prices are very reasonable. Please visit this site and introduce this site to your friends. We also need your good suggestions so that we could promote Punjabi langauge all over the world. Regards. Saeed

The reason SIKH'S HATE PAKISTANIS is because you convert our girls so that you can get '72 virgins in heaven'. And then yu beat them and do a lot of other horrible things. You especially target us because your quoran says target 'THE ENEMY'. Why are you then crying about us hating you?! Stop mixing with us and we'll stop hating you. Keep your religion to yourself!!!

why cant you all just get along, this seems bogus to me all of this hatred to me you all are alike and to fight among your selfs is so lame over what religion, u think god would want this. rebel in usa

Dear Punjabi Brothers and Sisters,

Note: Bharat, is the official true name for what is called India, thus Bharati, is synonomous with the word Indian.

I am a Pakistani Punjabi, unfortunately Punjab is divided on the basis of ignorance, arrogance, and exploitation of the fertile productive agricultural land of Punjab. Bharati Punjab is one of the main sources of Agriculture/Food for the rest of the Nations/States/Provinces of Bharat, Pakistani Punjab is one of the main sources of Agriculture/Food for Nations/States/Provinces of Pakistan.

I feel the same grief for my fellow East Punjabi (Bharati) as I do for my fellow West Punjabi (Pakistani) brothers and sisters in their fight against ignorance, arrogance, and exploitation of their race, language, religion, land, and culture by the Hindu Imperialists on East Punjab (Bharat Occupied Punjab) and Urdu Imperialists on West Punjab (Pakistan Occupied Punjab).

The Hindu Imperialists of Bharat want to slowly replace the East Punjabi's in their own land, two obvious examples are: (One) using forceful establishment of Hindi as the national language of Bharat, when most of the people of Bharat do not know how to even speak and or understand Hindi! (Two) using their Lingual Imperialist decree of making their own (Hindi) language as the official language of all of Bharat to freely colonize the East Punjab by taking avantage of the lack of East Punjabi people's Hindi literacy, such as by exploiting opportunities for government posts which require being fluent and literate in Hindi language!

The Urdu Imperialists of Pakistan want to slowly replace the West Punjabi's in their own land too, two obvious examples are: (One) using forceful establishment of Urdu as the national language of Pakistan, when most of the people of Pakistan do not know how to even speak and or understand Urdu! (Two) using their Lingual Imperialist decree of making their own (Urdu) language as the official language of all of Pakistan to freely colonize the West Punjab by taking avantage of the lack of Punjabi people's Hindi literacy, such as by exploiting opportunities for government posts which require being fluent and literate in Hindi language!

I hope this message suffices for this post in making my point more clear and using facts and not fiction.

May the Punjab (The 5 rivers) give all Punjabi people adequate life, energy, and sustainence to defeat the environmental, racial, lingual, cultural, and religious enemies of Punjab!

By the way, I believe Punjab (Punjabi Nationalism) is and should be the only scientifically and logically factual religion of the people of Punjab in order for complete focus on the reality of the material condition of the people of Punjab which is that the 5 rivers are blessed by nature for those in the Punjab, this such rare fertile region is blessed by nature with 5 rivers on a plain (with no mountains) instead of just 1 river and in the middle of mouhntains (thank nature we don't have mountains with just one river), we must cherish it, and protect it from mischievious foreign and domestic human polluters and human parasites.

P. S.
Hindu religion is based on oppressive caste-system, it is not a real religion, it is like a perfect example of ancient mythological religion's which have not even a little bit of scientific basis besides fascist law of the jungle, human's are naturally born with the ability to think with logic, reason, and patience unlike wild animals of the jungle. And Hindu religion preaches pollution of the only vital river of Northern India (the Ganges river) with ashes of dead Hindu's. I have love and understanding of the oppressive condtions of all people forced to be of the 4 of the 5 Hindu castes which are dominated by the "first caste", which is the ignorant and arrogant greedy brahman.

Dear Friend

You may think you are a Punjabi but you are totally wrong as you are assuming about India and its cultures. You do not know or understand anything about Hindu religion so your diatribe and nonsense against Hindus, India and the various cultures shows that you are a naive idiot.

Please first learn about India and then comment else do not do so on these boards as our purpose is to bring about love and light not nonsense that you are preaching. First become acquainted with realities and learn and educate. Your comments are sordid crap that shows that you are really blinded by hatred and ignorance. Your words will never reach anywhere except to you.

By allowing this post to be posted is done for compassion for idiots but frankly we do not need total idiots and cheap plotters like you who only wish to create rifts and divisions without knowing any reality. FOOLISH bastards like you have destroyed and damaged INDIA and PAKISTAN. Stay away from posting any of your nonsense again.

editor

india walon ko pakistanio se kya takleef hay
india khud bhot bari takleef hay.

ya its possible indian marry to pakistani

is it possible for an indian to marry a pakistani??

If bodies of the people of the sub-continent becomes strong no Britisher or anybody else cannot penetrate in it.This is fact that majority of the public like peace and like Indian movies. Same is the position in India but polititians are gaining benefit from the loop holes of relation. Now it is the right time both countries can get maximum benefit with mutual cooperation to meet the chellenges of WTO (trade)

APANA PUNJAB HOVE

is this a punjabi site?it looks more like an indian site to me,as i can't find any entries from pakistan.i'm so surprised to see that indians hate pakistanis like sooooooo much,it also makes me feel realy sad.
i'm a student in pakistan and let me tell u that we pakistanis do not hate indians,atleast not as mush as they do.our teachers at school also give us the lesson of equality and they often give examples of indian ppl who did great things instead of teaching us that pakistan is more suppirior than india.in my view the only difference between both our countries is our religions and we should learn to get a hang of it and instead of fighting among each other we should try to make our countries prosper and individuly appear on the world map as two sepperate great nations of the sub-continent.i can't believe u ppl,we have so mush to do for our countries and we still get enough time to waste our time like this.i hope u will take atleast some notice of my advice and stop acting like three year olds.
the sub-continent zindabad!
.....................................................
don't take me as a geeky patriot.

only pakipunjabi say they love sikhs..and not the other way around.
Why they say that? No real love it is...They just wanna divide India..play with the psyche of sikhs..but if they have to live together with them..i bet ya..they will end up fighting...
hey pakis......stop instigating Sikhs...let them live peacefully in their beloved country..
And pakis never say they love Punjabi hindus...even if they have the same culture too...

i want to say that there has to come peace between pakistan and india.
if it does not come many innocent people on both sides will die.
but the goverment will not die they will fight in their chair and soldiers of both country's will die and their family will suffer.
i just want to say that war is hankar.
you can find peace in the song of gurdas maan of punjab punjabi di if you want this song e-mail:sangat_singh••hotmail.com

If Pakistan and India will work togeter.
than will the dream of all shaheeds come true.
like bhagat singh and other shaheeds.

Ek bari galti kare woh NAADAAN
Do bari galti kare woh SAHTAAN
bar bar galti kare PAKISTAN

ithe kedi hai majal hai ki lange sade nal

Don't post comments such as pakis love sikhs only...u ppl can't break us up...••• chupo pakis...

Bharat Mata Ki Jai

I met few boys from some Lahore college came to Amritsar for a hockey tournament. We talked to them casually. we enjoyed Holi colors.

That was a nice encounter. They were a kind of envy of the frankness between boys/girls in here and more about love marriage.

those were gossips in our mother tongue that we cann't have the previlige with people from other places than Punjab.

Once Illias ghumman ( a punjabi writer from Pakistan ) came to ur university, but me stupid was busy with somewhere. Knew it later.

changa!
- Surinder

Oye main keya si
main pakistani de cheeta
oye teri.....
Main border paar bharat da share(lion) oon!!
oye main yeh oye main woh....
oo musallay la apna khoon (blood) de muje
oo Jatt hindu la tu bhi thallay rak
aye le tum dono ka blood apas main mix kar dia
Ab bata ..kis ka kon sa hai?

I dont know what to write. I only read a few paragrahs and am sad to know that there is so much hatred among us all. I think no matter you are a Indian Punjabi or a Paki Punjabi every one has a heart. Everyone wants to live a normal everyday life.

I personally think if polititians dont interfere in everyday growth of a human being in Pakistan they will grow into better human beings. However since the day they ar eborn the first lesson taught to them is poison against India. Which is very evil. Pakistan has no motive economical, educational or any other.

We hope for good but that normally doesnt happen all the time. Pakistan truley is a terrrist state now and everyone in it is not bad. I hope God bless that country so that this world will be a better place to live.

Hope there is no war ever between India and Pakistan. Only innocent people used as puppets die on both sides. They are also someones husbands, fathers, brothers on both sides. So you all stupid selfish Politicians of Pakistan stop this evil act. I am preety sure India will never initiate a war. Its so prsperous and happy that the people of INDIA wants to live in peace.

War has never decided who's right but whoes left. So people open your eyes and let this beautiful world grow and live in peace. Learn to enjoy - border ke us paar bhi bahut mohabbad hai.

WELL SAB NU SAS RE AKAL I AHVE NOT GOT A PROBLEM WITH PAKISTANI PUNJABI'S. WHAT HAS KICKED ALL THIS HATRED AMONG INDIA AND PAKISTAN IS BASICALLY THE BRITISH EMPIRE. EEVERYWHERE THEY WENT THEY CAUSED DESTRUCTION, THEY BRAINWASHED THE MUSLIMS SO THEY WANTED A SEPERATE COUNTRY. THEY HAVE BASICALLY RIPPED INDIA APART THEY KNEW IT WOULD MAKE INDIA WEAK, AND ALSO LEFT THE PROBLEM OF KASHMIR BEHIND DELIBRATELY SO INDIANS AND PAKISTANIS FIGHT AND BRITAIN AND SUPPLY WEAPONS WHILE THE TWO COUNTRIES ARE BOMBING THE HELL OUT OF EACH OTHER.CRAFTY KURAY ALSO LOOTED INDIA BEFORE THEY LEFT. I AM AN INDIAN I AM PUNAJBI AND I LOVE ALL INDIANS GUJARTI,BIHARIS AND SO ON. WE ARE ONE NATION. PEOPLE ON THE MESSAGE BOARD JUST FIGHTING AMONGST ONE ANOTHER PAK VERSUS INDIA YEAH MAKE TONY BLAIR AND HIS GOVERNMENT REALLY HAPPY, O RIGHT INDIA WE SELL YOU HAWKS GET BTTER TRAINING TO FIGHT PAKITANIS. AND ON THE SAME TABLE O NO INDIA AND PAKISTAN SHOULD NOT FIGHT! PAKISTANIS AND INDIANS CAN'T YOU SEE, THE BRITISH ARE LAUGHING IN OUR FACES. AND HAS FOR KASHMIR WELL IT BELONEGED TO NEITHER INDIA OR PAKISTAN IT WAS INDEPENDENT SO THERE. AND HAS FOR THESE KHALISTANIS , IS GUYS IF YOU WANTED A KHALISTAN YOU WAS ASKD IN PARTITION IF YOU WANT A SEPERATE COUNNTRY, ISS YOUR CHANCE. AND KHALISTAN MOVEMENT WAS KICKED OFF BY A GUY BINDRAWALA YEAH. HE WAS A CROOK, HE WANTED KHALISTAN SO HE COULD BE THE LEADER OF IT, YOU SEE RLIGION IS JUST AN EXCUSE TO BRAIN WASH SIKHS TO GO AGAINST THE INDIAN GOVERNMENT. HOW COME BEFORE HINDUS AND SIKHS GOT ALONG LIKE BROTHERS AND SISTERS THEN THIS CROOK TURNS UP STRRRING UP RACIAL HATRRED, FOR HIS OWN MEANS, SO HE CAN BE PRIME MINISTER AND FILL HIS COFFERS WHAT A THIEF. PEOPLE USE RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE TO US THINGS TO THERE ADVANTAGE, WAKE UP AND SEE THIS GUYS. IF THE INDIAN GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT SIKHS HOW COME ALOT OF TOP ARMY COMMANDERS ARE SIKH, AND OUR FORIEGN MINISTER IS SIKH JASWANT SINGH. ALSO THE SITUATION IN GUJARAT IS A GROUP OF SERIOSLY DEMENTED HINDUS GOING AROUND IN THE NAME OF RELIGION KILLING MUSLIMS. SO THERE PARTY CAN CONTROL THE STATE YOU SEE WHAT I AM SAYING GUYS THESE POLITICIANS ARE CROOKS MAN. MUSLIMS LIVE IN INDIA BECAUSE THEY LOVE IT OTHERWISE THEY COULD HAVE GONE TO PAKISTAN DURINNG PARTITION, BUT THEY DIDN'T. IT IS ALL INDIAN POLITICS SPIN, THE VAST MAJORITY OF HINDUS ARE GOOD PEOPLE. IT IS JUST A CERTAIN TAPPED IN THE HEAD MINORITY CAUSING THESE PROBLEMS YES TO THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE.

INDIAN MUSLIMS ARE SCARED IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY THIS IS WRONG. THEY TO ARE INDIAN AND DERSERVE THE SAME RESPECT HAS US SIKHS AND MY FELLOW HINDUS. IN THE UK WHERE I LIVE AT COLLEGE INDIAN HIDUS SIKHS AND MUSLIMS STICK TOGETHER LIKE BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE.CHANGAA SAS RE AKAL, NAMASTE,KUDAA OFFICE.BYE.

Oye hati Kati kuri,toon te khush kar ditta.mainu wi ek eho jehi punjabi Paki kuri di talash haigisi.Pher kadon milte kiththe mildi hain?Milke khushi manaiye te duniya di gum bhulaiye.

I am a Paki and i love sadey Sikh Punjabi Gabroo Jawan. They are the only nice people out of India. GOD BLESS PUNJABI!!! They don't hate, discriminate or perpetrate. We Paki love u Sikh!

i am presently living in a western country and happen to know a few pakistani punjabis, i am an indian punjabi, except for religion, i dont notice any difference wotsoever!wondering wot wild comments posted here are about?
I feel that politicians on either side of border have fed a lot of bullshit to us about the other side. Even our politicians are equally dodgy. lol!

Southie indian ponde samy ..u NEVER belonged in India why dont u eff off to elaam and take sinhala bullets

HI
Im doing a report on neo-imperialism and quasi- imperialism in Punjab/India. so who ever reads this i would really like to know more about Punjab/India and the troubles it faces so please send me some iformation about it thanks

Hey y'all. I'm a southie who got curious on reading the heading. Man, this is so trite.. india punjus love paki-punjus?. So why dont u all go live in Pakistan?what the hell r u still doing in India?
So long POOOOONJABIS. Man, I'll be glad to see you people gone..please leave India. You never belonged here in the first place. Adios limpdicks...pakis...
wannabe whites..Good riddance.

I wonder why we r so scummy, slimey, perverted, lying, untrustworthy etc.... why o why are we regarded by all as thieves and ignorant I guess it's because it's true !!!

Pakis can not be trusted.

The following are only a few of the important sayings from the Koran, dealing with kafirs or infidels. There are many more similar sayings throughout Islam's holy book. The message is the same. The numbers of chapters and verses are indicated in Roman and Hindu (or Arabic) numerals on the left. The injunctions are clearly spelled out so that there is no misunderstanding in the minds of simple believers.

VIII/12:
When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger [1].

VIII/36:
Lo! those who disbelieve spend their wealth in order that they may debar (men) from the way of Allah. They will spend it, then it will become an anguish for them, then they will be conquered. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto hell.

IX/5:
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

IX/28:
O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean. So let them not come near the Inviolable Place of Worship after this their year. If ye fear poverty (from the loss of their merchandise) Allah shall preserve you of His bounty if He will. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.
IX/73:
Oh Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's-end.

XCVIII/6:
Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.

X/5:
Unto Him is the return of all of you; it is a promise of Allah in truth. Lo! He produceth creation, then reproduceth it, that He may reward those who believe and do good works with equity; while, as for those who disbelieve, theirs will be a boiling drink and painful doom because they disbelieved.

LXIX/30-37:
(It will be said): Take him and fetter him And then expose him to hell-fire And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in Allah the Tremendous, And urged not on the feeding of the wretched, Therefore hath he no lover here this day, Nor any food save filth Which none but sinners eat.

LXVIII/14-16:
It is because he is possessed of wealth and children That, when Our revelations are recited unto him, he saith: Mere fables of the men of old. We shall brand him on the nose.

LXVII/6:
And for those who disbelieve in their Lord there is the doom of hell, a hapless journey's end!

XLVII/12:
Lo! Allah will cause those who believe and do good works to enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; while those who disbelieve take their comfort in this life and eat even as the cattle eat, and the Fire is their habitation.

XLIV/43-50:
Lo! the tree of Zaqqum [2], The food of the sinner! Like molten brass, it seetheth in their bellies As the seething of boiling water. (And it will be said): Take him and drag him to the midst of hell, Then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water. (Saying): Taste! Lo! thou west forsooth the mighty, the noble! Lo! this is that whereof ye used to doubt.

XXXVII/67-68:
And afterward, lo! thereupon they have a drink of boiling water And afterward, lo! their return is surely unto hell.

V/33-34:
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

V/72-73:
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah bath forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

XXII/19-22:
These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.

LXXVI/4:
Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers manacles and carcans and a raging fire.

There is no difference between India and Pakistan. Especially Punjabis from these two countries. Punjabis have the same language, culture and tradition. If India and Pakistan unite, they will be the Superpower. Lets now work together and stop dividing and hating each other. The only people who want hindu, muslim and sikh to always fights are white people. Because if we always keep fighting, we will never work together to live up to our great potentials.

Hello to the cult called sikhras..all i can tell u is this that soon when Islam rises we will sure as hell come for u Dogs n scumbags for the abuses and atrocities u sikhras commited in ur sikhra rule we have not forgotton how ur sikhra armies dug out graves of ur ancestors and defiled bones of our ancestors this is just one crime of 1000s which we are now beginning to educate our youth on just as you miseducate ur youth about muslims your khatri gurus were just power hungry brahmans who took off the robe of declining brahmanism and created a new cult out of sufi and hinduism called Sikhri.

It is our promise to Sikhras that when islam rises you are one cult which we owe a great deal too and we going to re-demolish ur temple in amshitsar just like abdali and this time we will complete the job of finishing u hypocrite traitors to ur own punjab fake Jatts that you are ...sikhras were mostly Hindu Jaaats that converted to cult of sikhra. True home of Jatts is land of 5 rivers which means Punjab which is in pakistan land of True Jatts. sikhras are more related to their brethen in Haryana and rajastan and have little in common with typical Lahori Punjabi Jatt. Islam forever the true religion of the One God death and destruction to cult traitors like Jaaat sikhras whos end is very near!!!...

All hindus & sikh are born idiots and retarded,that's all we can say....

I am a Hindu Tamil from South India . I was looking towards the fact that how many Punjabi Hindus hate muslims . But I believe I have still not got the answer after reading various posts on this Discussion forum. I think propably a lot of people in this country are a divided lot & thereby choose to be politically correct.

It's more like United States where a lot of americans ( westerners in general ) choose to keep their views to themselves.

Nevertheless I believe that a lot of people should move ahead & share their views in our country. There is already a lot of political correctness.

Unless , we people stand united , we won't be able to protect ourselves from Politicians selling our interests to countries like Pakistan.

Thanks

anon of june 30

Nobody hates muslim individuals as such. We consider muslims of India and pakistan as our brothers but they do not consider us as brothers but as enemies.

You can see that in attitude of most postings by people who claim that they follow a peaceful religion but abuse, write nonsense and use derogatory language to all.

The form and shape of Muslim mind is contoured and distorted by your relgious texts which are defective, stale and useless in todays world lacking any compassion or kindness to others.

Thus expecting any literare or intelligent conversation or kindness, humanity from Muslims is foolish.

A distorted mind can never even see properly so expecting any fairness or balanced view from such mind is next to impossible. I can tell you that Islamic texts have corrupted the minds of its followers and I can bet that 99% of such followers are blind and have no knowledge the meaning of arabic texts. What a pity.

Well, I for one don't hate muslims, and my family are Sikhs. But to tell you the truth I would never marry one or date one, unless he is not in the religion any more. Too much water under the bridge. I think our parents dread us falling for a muslim, ever more than falling for a white person. Know what I mean?

Muslims are thought of now the world over as extreamists and irrational, it's scary really. I'm not saying they are like this, but we are all made that much more wary now since 9/11, Bin Laden and so forth. But even before all this, I read books and saw movies (remember; 'Not without my daughter' starring Sally Field)Its about men who have married western non-muslim woman and ran off with their kids to Pakistan/Iran etc. Has anybody else ever seen this movie, it's worth watching. Every day you hear in the papers, how this muslim man and that muslim man has disapeared with the kids and the western woman is left, her life in tatters. Really, really scary stuff. I have a lady friend I know that is Muslim, her and her husband are the sweetest couple, I don't mind being friends with them, but wouldn't dream of marrying or have children with them. Too scary a thought.

hello. just happen to pass thru this site. just wanna add a few things..

really sad the way some of you punjabs make urself and the religion of sikhism to be. i am not hindu nor sikh,i am MUSLIM and PROUD. but more importantly i am human. i think some of you need to understand that. i am not indian nor pakistani but find it quite amusing that some of you canadian and british born punjabs find the audacity to try to revive the animosity between you and ur fellow muslims. an animosity that you know nothing about. that only your grandparents MAY have had to witness. just wanted to add my two cents. basically just would like to see less hatred, and unfortunately have a feeling this site is full of young teens in the midst of an identity crisis b/c daddy calls them by there indian name but there friends call him a western name..ie'sunnie'..etc.. can go on but just wanted to add that point. good luck all

Osama Bin Laden and all pakistan people are stupid and gay.

you all suc* BIG TIME!!!!!!!!

Just for balwinder -- this sort of hindu affiliation would be gone if u were living in delhi during 80s anti sikh riots. I have lived thru that period in delhi and have seen wot has happened. Now someone would probably say wot was bhinderwala doing -taking out hindus out of buses and shooting them, well thats true but was entire sikh population responsible for it? Just to make a point further Rajiv Gandhi won a landside victory in elections after those riots. Basically hindus are insecure lot and can easily be made to feel threatened and thats wot most political parties been doing for most years in India after independence. Create a situation as congress did that "hindus are threatened from sikhs" and now bjp is doing exactly the same "hindus are threatened from muslims". Good recent example would be Gujrat in India which is purely political. Just to play with stats-hindus in india are 80%, muslims 14%, sikhs 2% & remaining rest all put together. Now who is threatened from whom?

Pakis are born idiots and retarded.

Yesterday Jaswant singh (Indian Foriegn minister) said " the majority of sikhs of india wanted operation Blue star to take place. We have never been divided from india and never will be because we are like a mother and son, Jai Hind". When asked about Khalistan he said it would be madness because it would be madness because the punjab would not be able to support itself economically. He denied reorts about any sikhs in jail being held without trial. You people should take a lesson from this most senior singh or leave our country and grt political asylum in canada - Jai Hind
Manoj

By Balwinder Singh contd:

Was there not even one Sikh who remembered the significance of this very June in Lahore as the Jamaat-E-Islaami insulted the memory of Banda Bahadur and thousands of Sikhs? Was there not even one who shuddered at the insult to the memory of his ancestors when the Jamaat-E-Islami mouthed such hideous lies? The Muslims of Pakistan want to fool the Sikh into denying his very identity. They want Sikhs to forget thousands of past incidents like the Murder of Bhai Banda Bahadur. They want Sikhs to forget that their very lives are tied to the soil of India and to the eternal values of Hinduism. It is the Sikhs who are the true Kshatriyas; the warriors who stake their very lives to protect DHARMA. That is why the color of Punjab is Kesari. Sikhs cannot and will not forget the memories of horror
which were etched onto their souls by the very same Muslims. From Abdali to Akbar, from Aurangzeb to Jinnah, the story has always been the same. The ultimate mantle of bloodletting and genocide of Sikhs rests squarely on the
followers of that most cruel and intolerant of creeds; Islam. It was for the purpose of fighting this same creed that the very concept of Sikhism was born. The sword of the Khalsa was formed to rid the world of the cancer of intolerance and oppression. A holy oath was taken to rid India of the oppressors, it was for this very reasons that
the five symbols or Kakkars of Sikhi - Kesh, Kara, Kanga, Kirpan, Kacchera were created. Each one of these symbols represents an ideal of resistance against the Muslim conquerors and reinforces Hinduism as the source of Sikhism. 1. Kesh - the tradition of Kesh meaning the long hair which is not cut. The Sikh follows this tradition of Hindu warriors who vowed never to cut their hair until the Muslim aggressors were thrown out of India. Their hair is the symbol of the vow which is never forgotten. In Hinduism the cutting off of hair represents fruition of a duty or task. For the Sikhs this task is never finished as they are forever the protectors of the eternal Dharma of India, therefore the hair is never cut. 2. Kanga - the tradition of the Kanga meaning the wooden/ivory comb is the symbol of constancy and alertness, as it reminds the Sikh never to be complacent. It means that Sikhs must nurture and constantly nourish the fire of warrior spirit that burns within them, just as they must always keep their long hair combed in order for it to be clean and manageable. 3. Kara - the tradition of the Kara meaning the metal bracelet, symbolizes immovable determination. The courage and detachment of Banda Bahadur and millions of Sikh warriors was rekindled whenever they looked at their Karas and were reminded of the willpower and strength inherent in their tradition. The bracelet is also an indicator of the Hindu concept of Jiva and Atman, where the bracelet represents the material form of the Soul and the metal represents the commonality of the spiritual essence of
all living beings, the Atman. 4. Kirpan - the tradition of Kirpan meaning the sword, symbolizes the defense of the oppressed. It is the representation of the fierce ideals of a Kshatriya race which has pledged its life to protecting Dharma and defending the land of its forefathers from foreign invaders who threaten its culture. It also reminds the Sikh warrior of the Hindu concept of the fleeting temporary nature of life, and focuses attention on the immortal glory of the Self or Brahman who lies beyond the fragile nature of this life. 5. Kachha - the tradition of Kachha meaning the short minimal clothing, symbolizes the highest Hindu concept of renunciation. The Sikh is a Kshatriya whose life is pledged to the fight against injustice, therefore renunciation is a key element as it makes the warrior detached from the material aspects of life and focuses his attention on to his Dharma or duty.

It is these symbols of their origins that make Sikhs the proudest, dignified patriots of India. It was the Sikh Gurus who preached the fact that Ram is everywhere, it was they who lovingly gave Ram the name "Wahe Guru".
The Sikh has not forgotten the words of Guru Tegh Bahadur who was dragged to the court of Aurangzeb and forced to bow at the Muslim emperor's feet. It was then that the valiant Guru said in a message that has echoed down to every Sikh warrior through the centuries: "As a Sikh I must protect the Dharma. If you can succeed in converting this Tegh Bahadur, then believe me, every Hindu child of this country will accept Islam. But you will fail. Because God's Justice ensures that every community will have the right and the freedom to practice its religion." It was at these words that his disciples Bhai Mati Das was sawn alive and Bhai Sati Das wrapped in cotton to be burnt alive even as the Quranic verses were read aloud. It was at these eternal words that Guru Tegh Bahadur was beheaded alive. It is this identity that the Muslims of Pakistan want Sikhs to forget. This article has been written in dedication to that living, breathing heritage of Sikhism. Perhaps the Muslims of Pakistan do not realise that for a Sikh, India is the cradle of his identity. It was for the soil of India and the values and ideals of the eternal Sanatan Dharma that so many Sikhs gloriously martyred themselves. There may not have been a single true Sikh to protest the insult to his heritage on that day in Lahore, but there are countless proud ones who know the true meaning of Sikhi and will not fall for such lies. Next week I will describe the details of how the Muslims have always "supported" the Sikhs by describing the history of genocide which was perpetrated on the Sikhs by them during the Mughal reign, during Independence, during the horror of Partition and even today as Gurudwaras are being taken apart brick by brick in Pakistan.

Written by Balwinder Singh (posted by hisfan)

By Balwinder Singh

The True Enemies of Sikhism - Part 1
On June 25, 1999, the Sikh religion was subjected to an incredibly cruel and insulting joke, when members of
Pakistan's Jamaat-e-Islami, addressed a vast gathering of Sikhs in a hotel in Lahore. "Do not consider yourselves alone in the fight for freedom. All the Muslims of the world are with you." thundered Maulana Aslam Sheikh. "Keep
Khalistan alive"!thundered the Muslims, as the bewildered young Sikhs from UK, US and Canada looked on. It was a "Sang Sabha" organized by the Jamaat-E-Islami,Dal Khalsa, Babar Khalsa and International Sikh Youth Federation to revive the "Khalistan" movement for a state independent of India. Urdu Poets spouted "now Jamaat-e-Islami and Sikhs have become one." even as former ISI chief Hamid Gul wrote articles saying "Now is the time the Kashmiri Mujahideen established contacts with Khalistanis". The young Sikhs of that audience who have been reared and raised in lands thousands of miles away from Punjab, listened in uninterrupted rapture to the obscene distortion of truth. For decades their impressionable minds had been poisoned with anti-India venom, their brains had been stuffed with anti-Hindu poison, their heritage and family history had been distorted and twisted to an unrecognizable extent. They did not know their own identity, how could these youths know what was the truth about their own religion and culture. For if there had been a single true Sikh in that audience, he would have screamed in protest at the insult that was taking place; a violation of the honor and heritage of every Sikh took place that day in the dark confines of a hotel in Lahore. If even one Sikh among those hundreds had known of the centuries of hatred, oppression, genocide and rapine that these very same Muslims, who said "All the Muslims of the World are with you" effected on generations of Sikhs before, he would have cried in shame and rage at the hideous irony of that statement. He would have reminded the Muslims of the millions of Sikhs who died by Allah's sword. He would have remembered the vision of Guru Tegh Bahadur, Guru Gobind Singh, Guru Arjan Dev, Bhai Banda Bahadur and hundreds of the world's most revered Sikh leaders being sawn, burnt, boiled, quartered and torn alive by the same Muslims. Perhaps if he knew anything about his own history he would also have remembered what happened to sikhs at the hands of Muslims in the very same city of Lahore about three hundred years ago. In 1716 AD, Zakaria Khan, the son of the Muslim Governor of Lahore was chopping off the heads of thousands of Sikhs and loading them onto carts to carry them as a GIFT to the Muslim emperor of Delhi. The "gift" consisted of SEVEN HUNDRED CARTLOADS carrying the beheaded heads of Sikhs, along with thousands of prisoners in chains including Bhai Banda Bahadur. The soldiers at the front of the procession carried the heads of beheaded Sikh warriors impaled on wooden pikes. As the procession of death reached Delhi, Farukhshiyar ordered his Minister Mohammed Amin Khan to prepare a fitting celebration in reception of the gift. On the 29th of February, 1716, the Muslims of Delhi lined the streets in full force in anticipatory delight of the fabulous show that was going to unfold. The crowd cheered as the front guard walked up with 2,000 soldiers each holding a Sikh warrior's head impaled on his gaily decorated upright spear. The heads of the murdered Sikhs were stuffed with straw, and stuck on Bamboo spears, their long hair streaming in the wind like a veil, and along with them to show that every living thing in
Gurdaspur had perished, a dead cat on a pole.

The Great Sikh Warrior Bhai Banda Bahadur

Immediately following this was Bhai Banda Bahadur's elephant. Banda Bahadur bruised and bleeding sat in an iron
cage. He was bedecked out of mockery with a gold-laced red turban and a blinding crimson robe of brocade draped on his tattered body. The heavy robe of brocade was decorated with pomegranates. Behind him stood a mail-clad
officer with a drawn sword. After him came thousands of Sikh prisoners strapped in pairs to camels' backs without saddles. Every one of their faces had been colored black by soot and pointed sheepskin or paper caps were dangling
their heads in mockery. Each of them had one hand pinned to his neck, between two pieces of wood. The rear flank
followed with the Muslim Commanders, Mohammed Amin Khan, his son Kamar-ud-Din Khan, and his son-in-law Zakaria Khan. Even amidst this grotesque celebration of inhumanity, the Sikhs faced the pain and humiliation with heads held erect and proud. Not a single Sikh's face showed the slightest sign of agony or defeat. In the words of Islamic historian Mohammed Harisi, author of the Ibratnama, who saw the spectacle with his own eyes, "The crowds were pressing forward to get a better view. The road to the palace, was lined with troops and filled with exultant crowds, who jostled forward to have a chance at mocking the Sikhs. They spat on the prisoners and Banda Bahadur and laughed at their grotesque appearance. The Muslims shook their heads and poked and prodded the Sikhs as they passed. "HU! HU! infidel dog worshippers your day has come. Truly, retribution follows on ransgression, as wheat springs from wheat, and barley from barley!! " Such were the cries that arose from the pious followers of the Quran. Yet their triumph was incomplete. For the Sikh warriors took all the insults with a smile. In a surreal scene, the warriors displayed not a single sign of fear or shame, they rode on, calm, cheerful, singing songs of their beloved Gurus. They were happy to die the death of martyrs. "Kill me first, O Deliverer" was the cry on every Sikh's lips as they reached the execution platform. Sikh warriors were beheaded and their heads impaled on
poles. It took SEVEN days to behead and murder all the Sikh prisoners. The corpses were loaded on wagons and taken out of town to be thrown to the vultures. Their severed heads were hung up on trees and on stakes near the
town square as celebratory symbols decorated with ribbons and bright banners. For three months Banda Bahadur and his men were tortured to reveal where they had hidden the treasures which funded the Sikh resistance. Not one of them uttered a word of betrayal. It was on Sunday, 9th June, 1716 almost exactly 283 years ago from the day that Jamaat-E-Islaami made the obscene statement in Lahore, that Banda's cage was again hoisted on top of an elephant, and he was dressed in mock attire of an emperor, with a colourful red pointed turban on his head. His 4 year old son
Ajay Singh was placed on his lap. Twenty Sardars marched behind the elephant as the procession passed through the streets of Delhi, and headed for the Kutub-ud-din mausoleum of Bahadur Shah, near Kutab Minar. On reaching that graveyard, the captives were again offered a final ultimatum: conversion to Islam or death. None of them hesitated even a second to choose Death. Each one of the Sikh Sardars was subjected to incredible tortures before being executed. Their heads were then impaled on spears and arranged in a circle around Banda who was now squatting on
the ground. As thousands of spectators watched, a short sword was thrust into Banda Bahadur's hands and he was
ordered to kill his own son Ajay Singh. As the king of warriors sat unperturbed, the executioner moved forward and plunged his sword into the little child slashing him into two. Then pieces of flesh were cut from his son's bloodied corpse and thrown in Banda's face. The dead child's liver was torn out of his stomach along with other entrails and stuffed into Banda Bahadur's mouth. The father sat still as a stone, not a flicker of emotion crossing his face to betray any trace of horror. Mohammed Amin Khan then seized Banda by the hair and barked: "From your manner so far you appear to be a man of virtue, who believes in God, and in doing good deeds. You are also very intelligent. Can you tell me why you are having to suffer all this here ?" Banda's reply was, "When the tyrants oppress their subjects to the limit, then God sends men like me on this earth to mete out punishment to them. But being human, we sometimes overstep the laws of justice, and for that we are made to pay whilst we are still here. God is not being unjust to me in any way." At this the infuriated Mohammed Khan gestured to the executioner to step forward. The executioner grabbed Banda Bahadur's head in his rough callused hands and with a bloodcurdling shudder thrust the tip of his razor sharp dagger into Banda's right eye, twisting and turning into the socket as he slashed the optical nerves and gouged out the eyeball. The second eye met the same fate. Throughout the torturous moments of unimaginable agony, Banda Bahadur sat motionless like a rock. His spirit had taken him beyond the physical
barriers into the realm where one can feel no pain. The Muslims cheered in their bloodlust as the executioner slashed off Banda's left foot, then both of his arms. Then a pair of red-hot pincers were brought and chunks of Banda's flesh
were torn off his frame. But Banda Bahadur did not budge. In the final moment before attaining Samadhi, the glorious warrior smiled in a final mocking gesture at his torturers. Trembling with fear at the surreal detachment of the man, the Muslims slashed at his body with their swords, mincing it into thousands of little pieces as if afraid that even the severed pieces of blood soaked flesh would arise any minute and fight back. Every detail of the preceding event can be found in the accounts of writers such as Khafi Khan, Mohammed Harisi, Thornton, Elphinstone, Daneshwar and others.

contd in other message
Written by Balwinder Singh (posted by hisfan)

guru gobind protected by rajput , coward guru gobind like chicken , again he turn against hindu , he is like snake he has two head , he abuse womans in jungle ,rape them after kill them

What the •••• does this Osama Bin Laden know about Mohammed anyways??? He wasn't there when he was alive and he didn't deserve to be. He's a fucked up moron with nothing but a goal to kill people for no reason other than his own and then covering it up as "benefiting mankind"...what an asshole.

Some Facts About Islam and Prophet Mohammad
Koran which most Moslems call it Prophet Mohammed's only miracle was written by Osman sixty years following the death of the Prophet. Therefore, the Holly book of Koran is nothing but a collection of "I heard him say".
All my life I was told that Mohammad, who was illiterate, went to a mountain and when he came out he had written Koran. Researching this incredible miracle I realized that it was the biggest lie ever told. I believe a person's action is more important than his words.
The Prophet (as Mr. Bashire calls him) protector of women and the human rights advocate, at age Twenty-five (25) married his boss, a forty (40) year old rich woman named Khadijeh, after she proposed to him. They had four daughters together but we know a lot about one daughter named Fatemeh. When Khadijeh died Mohammad at age fifty-six asked to marry Ayesha, daughter of his friend and first follower Abobakr. She was seven years old.
Abobakr requested from the Prophet to wait till she reached the age nine before consummating their marriage. So at age fifty-Eight the great Prophet, the defender of women's rights raped a nine year old child. This is wrong today and it was wrong then.
That is the reason for marriage age for girls age is nine years old (and sometimes younger in Islam).
Then Prophet Mohammad married anywhere between 29 to 45 more women. According to Ebn Abbas, "The highest member of Moslems who is the Prophet Mohammed has also the highest appetite for women."
In another place God told Mohammad that "we have made such women available to you without any payment to them, these are all your cousins, slave women and any Moslem woman who would like to give you herself free of charge." So slavery at least for women was quite common.
Prophet Mohammad even asked his own adopted son, Zaid Ebn Hares, to divorce his wife, Zeinab, so that he could marry her. When the members of tribe protested this marriage, because the daughter-in-law was considered like one's daughter. Mohammed answered that he received a revelation from God, that "A Moslem man cannot adopt another man's child." Hence Hares was not his real son, therefore he could marry his adopted son's wife.
When Mohammad and his wife Khadijeh adopted Zaid they were not Moslem. Prophet must obey God's word and therefore, Zaid is not his son and Zeinab is not his daughter-in-law (according to Mohammad). That is why adoption is prohibited in Islam.
According to Koran, a collection of "I heard him say": "Your wives are your tillage, go in unto your tillage in what manner so ever you will."
And in another place it says "Good women are obedient, as for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them."
Please Mr. Bashire don't give me the common reply by orthodox Moslems that the word "scourge" is only one translation for the word, dharaba (beat), used in Koran, which "could" also mean "strike with feather." This is the most preposterous answer.
Does it make any sense that if a woman disobeys her husband, she first gets a warning and if the rebellion continues she is kicked out of her bedroom, and then right at the end the husband comes and starts beating his wife with feather?
Wasn't there a more caressing word in Arabic than the word which could be translated as "scourge".
Prophet married one of his daughters to Abobakr. After she died while being punished for disobedience. Prophet married another daughter to Abobakr.
For centuries the Mullah were opposed the translation of Koran in any other language. They said that Arabic was the language of God, and Koran must be read in Arabic. The reason was to hide the truth.
That is why every time a Moslem is questioned his answer is that Koran has been misinterpreted. What kind a book is this that can be misinterpreted so easily and widely?
Why haven't all these Islamic scholars been able in 1400 years to get together and interpret this book so that everyone agrees with what was said and who said it?
Women cannot drive in Saudi Arabia, and in Afghanistan the Talibans closed all girl's schools and fired all the women from their jobs.
Women in Islamic nations are living in subhuman conditions and you call it protection. Protection from what? Protection from men like the Prophet who had no sexual tolerance toward women and if he liked them he must have them?
It is widely rumored that it is stated in ahadith (life stories of Prophet Mohammad) that "It is un-Islamic to beat a woman, a child, or a weaker person." This statement is again used to believe that women are weaker than men. It has been proven by the world wars, Medical science, and history of mankind that women are the stronger sex.
In another place it is stated that "The role of the woman is to raise family and mostly they are not exposed to the outside world."
Why? Just because women carry the fetus in their womb does not mean that they are responsible for taking care of children. There is nothing instinctive about changing diapers.
No, men just didn't want to do domestic work and came up with this nonsense that God wanted it this way.
Why, did God hate women?

http://www.golshan.com

From Pakistan Information Network:

The chances of Congenital Disease or Disorder in children are more than
12 times higher if you marry your cousin rather than if you marry someone not
related to you. In Pakistan, 1/3rd of the marriages take place within the
relatives which is the highest ratio amongst all the Muslim countries. The
ratio is higher than that in the Pakistanis of Birmingham, UK's, ... 2/3rd. In
a recent study, it has been discovered that children born to Birmingham
Pakistanis have 8 times more Congenital Diseases, Disorders than the rest of
the population of that city. The Study did not count the Muslims of other
countries living in Birmingham who may also have marriages between cousins, so
the actual ratio could be higher than 8 times. Pakistanis are 7% of
Birmingham's population but they have put so much financial strain on the
British Subsidized Health Care System there that City of Birmingham has started
an Awareness Campaign in it's Pak Community because the city can not stop such
marriages according to British Laws. There's no news that any Mullah in UK has
started opposing this Awareness Campaign yet. The anti-Pakistani White
Supremacist of UK have already alleged that Pakistanis want those Congenitally
Idiot Children to make an excuse to collect money and free benefits from the
British Welfare System without working.
People who want to oppose this Awareness in UK and Pakistan on religious
grounds must consider the following facts before making fool out of themselves
and putting another joke on Islam for the World :

1. Does Quran say that marriage within the family is better than marriage in
non-relatives?
2. How many times the Holy Prophet himself married any of his 1st, 2nd or 3rd
cousins?
3. How many of his daughters had the Holy Prophet marry within his family or
relatives?
4. Is it not possible that he (pbuh) knew that mixture of Genome of Hazrat Ali
and Hazrat Fatima would not cause Congenital Disease or Disorder in their
children?
5. Did the Holy Prophet ever encouraged marriage between cousins more than
marriage in non-relatives?

Since I was a teenager, I thought that children of married cousins
sometimes have Congenital Defects. I had observed that even the children who
did not seem to have any major defects or had not died in infancy were
different than normal children. They wore glasses ... if not, they were too
short ... if not, they were too tall but very weak to fight-with because of
their weak lungs and lack of muscles. My one 1st cousin lost his eyesight at
age 10 and he was the only male child. His sister was born so dark that she
didn't look like daughter of her white parents. Very slowly her complexion
turned white at age 45 but it was too late for her marriage now. The 3rd child
has very weak eyesight. I guess one day, Genome Technology would end-up
locating the culprit gene that causes such a misery and cousins would be able
to marry if their Gene Map checked-out fine for marriage. Until then, beware of
the risk you are taking if you are marrying a relative.

Even our Muslim countries (Kuwait) dont want us

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/250801/detfro05.asp

Indeed it is the truth...Pakistan cannot compete with India. It will fall apart trying

Rab Rakha
May Allah Save Pakistan

Pakistan is more and more like BARBADISTAN

I am afraid if Pakistan does not change its policies soon on support of terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, it will break up soon like 1971 and history will be repeated.

There is terrorism within Pakistan daily there are bombing in Lahore and Karachi as well other major cities in Pakistan. It will definately spread more day by day. It is the doing of our own goverment.

Rab Rakha

Thanks "True PAK" , That more than answers my question
Not a very good 54 year report card

Brother Anonymous

Aslaam ual Alaikum

Pakis can not be compared to India. The different is night and day in every sector.

Let me give you some highlight and example;

1)Foreign Exchange Reserve ....Indian $44 billion and.....Pakistan $1.2 billion
2)Purchase Power PPP......India 1.8 trillion (5th largest in the world)and......Pakistan $96 billion
3)Food surplus.........India 61 million metric tons and........Pakistan NIL.
4)Information Technology Soft Export.....India $8 billion (equal to Pakistan entire export) and......Pakistan $20 million
5)Debts..........India $80 billion and ........Pakistan $93 billion
6)GNP Gross Nation Products........India $500 billion and..........Pakistan $60 billion

Now you see Pakistan is in category of Sri Lanka, Nepal & Bangladesh. By the way, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh economics are better than Pakistan.

If Pakistan does not change its policy soon on Kashmir and other factor, without the shadow of doubt Pakistan will fall apart like 1971, history will be repeated again due to too much sectarian and ethnic problems in Pakistan.

If the aforementioned points are not clear to you brother, I will repeat it again. Pakistanis are living in denial and delusion.

Kuda'hafiz.

A lot has been said about how much debt Pakistan owes to world bank (93 Billion )
Does any body know how much debt India owes ?

Pakis can not be trusted in any sectors.

I fully agree with " something for Aethiest too "The best religon in the world is " Live and let live ".
The religons teach who killed who in which war and how from childhood on, Religions actually put thoughts and ideas in the minds of children and those who get baptised by reading and lecturing the same stories , Eventually the person getting lectured starts to believe them and they start to hate the groups of the opposite faith.
Religons tell its believers that their ancectors were tortured and persecuted by the ancestors of the opposite religon and stop just short of saying , You go and get them, just like a dog trainer telling his dog , GO GET EM --GO GET EM --GO GET EM , again and again , soon the follower starts to GO GET THEM.
The only good thing in the religions when they came into being was managing the people ie law and order , looking after children, elderly , sick and infirm , creating employment etc etc , which has been taken over by the political governments, which do a lot better job than the religion governments (Talibans etc)
Afraid of GO GET THEM people I shall remain Annonymous

al this talk of one group dominating the othr is an immature thought for today.
the reason why there are conflicts all over the world is because people think that if they eliminate other minority etc ,thier problems will be solved,but nothing of the sort isgoing to happen.zimbabwean zeal to throw out whites isnt going to help em inthe end coz thire ppolicies are corrupt so poor they will remain and those farms wen taken over by inexperienced looters will wither.
the problem is people all over the world attach too much importance and respect to predatory behavior.
mongols have been the greatest predators but they are one of the poorest people ,waiting for chengiz to take rebirth again.
as punjabiz have been reputed to turn deserts intyo fertile lands and enterpreneurship in almost impossible conditions,it is a lesson for all ,to create our own space and live in peace with others.
religion has losst its relevance.pre rationalistic societies needed god\gods to solve mystrious problems like diseease /child birth /rain/climate etc which we are increasingly coming to understand moer and control.we DONT NEED RELIGION ANYMOER it is only going to create more problems than solve any.
if anybody hasd any idea to share please u r welcome at "something for the athiests too" page.

It was Guru Gobind Singh that told us never to trust muslims!!!

If u say to a muslim: Jath tushe chute boli, ushe toida chitar jarthanei!

He will still lie to u. Muslims are BSERs and islam is bs.

Never never trust a Paki, he would be a bach stabber like Gen. Pervez Musharraf. It is in Paki blood to cheat, lie, kill, back stabbing.

TO ALL WHO CARE---IN THE NAME OF GOD AND FREEDOM PASS THIS ON.

this was a message accidentally sent by a muslim male to a young sikh woman working for a chemicals company. The sender thought he was contacting another
muslim.

If there is any Sikh, jew, christian, buddhist, hindu or even muslim who wants to expose these hateful islaim groups operating in Britain and in Europe generally, pass
this onto your friends, relatives, temples and churches----preserve your honour and freedom of conscience aganinst this self deceiving islamic evil.

I hope all good muslims will understand.


A message to muslim youth
real khalifa a political reality
from.Dr. K.H. Farukh
for private circulation
13 april 2000
>
> we are each and every weekend having stalls where we
> give out
> literature about islam. We have these stalls in many
> areas where
> there r lots of kafirs(SIKHS, HINDHU ,JEWS) and
> other non believers.
> I would like to extend our activities further.
> We are in many ways surprised that so many muslims
> have come to buy
> out books and provide funds for revealing the
> distressed muslims of
> the world especially in places such as kosovo and
> kashmir. The
> government and local authorities is not interested
> in our causes as
> they would rather fund the gurdurwaras and gays and
> homos.
>
> We have many interesting books about islam showing
> why islam is the
> only human way of life and other so called religions
> are
> animalistic. The teachings of the great prophet
> mohammed must be
> passed on until the whole world is islam. The world
> would only thus
> be saved.
> We call upon our fellow youth to come and join us in
> our mission
> universal and global islam. The job is big but
> nothing impossible.
>
> if the kafir non believers does not accept by gentle
> persuasion or
> reasoning then other methods which are allowed for
> the holy quaran
> must be used such as going to war with the kafir or
> converting them
> bu manipulation. We need to send out our boys to
> bring sikh girls
> into the "umma" or community of islam
>
> this task is getting easier by the day as the sikh
> and hindu girls
> are not taught (as in done in islam) much about
> there religion at
> all. They have more westernised up bringing and
> schools, colleges,
> and university compass is the ideal place for our
> youths to carry
> out there duties easily in this way.
>
> it is easy to take sikh girls out on a date as they
> generally like a
> good drink and from there gradually they can be
> brought into islam.
> This is not a hard job at all as the kafir women
> like muslim boys.
> Hardly surprising as we are attracted , intelligent
> compared with
> the kafirs. This is common sense that everybody
> knows. we need your
> help at this cruital time when our muslim brothers
> and sisters are
> being killed in countries all over the world.
>
> THE REAL KHALIFAH MOVEMENT THE EYES THE EARS THE
> VOICE OF ISLAM.

You are right Sardar.

Pakistani Punjabis are not preoccupied about their identity etc as they are in a vast majority in their own country and hold the levers of power there. They do not suffer from an inferiority complex like the Indian Punjabis do.

Muslim Punjabis ruled their homeland for about 900 years (before Pakistan came into being) and created what is now accepted as 'Punjabi culture' throughout the world ie the food, clothes, language and distinct outlook on life.

No amount of Sikh propaganda trying to portray Punjabiat as synonymous with Sikhism will ever succeed. You're just a minority in your little backwater in good ole Hindia!

Not all Punjabis wish for reunification of West and East Punjab.

In 1947 we went our separate ways and many of us want to keep it that way. We have our own distinct religions and cultures and intend to keep it that way.

You Indian Punjabis split your own East Punjab three- ways in the 60s (and this time you can't accuse involvement of West Punjabis in this matter).

Let us continue to develop our states and live as good neighbours respecting each other's borders.

hello dosto

eh jaan ke bahut khushi hoyi ki merey vargey hor vi hazaran han .
rehnda taan main india ch hain but i feel that punjab is one . i have done my degree from amritsar and whenever we used to go to wagah border ....istran lagda si ki apney dil da addha tukda border dey uspaar piya hovey .
while the union is not possible it still would be good if border restrictions could loosen a bit
merey pakistani dost mainu email zaroor karan at the id ameetsingh- at - 123india.com

pyaar naal
ameet

I'm afraid union of east and west punjab is not possible....for reasons known to smaller provinces. well certain people say the partition was promarily a conspiracy to truncate punjab by lesse provinces...

Anyway.......being a pak punjabi, i love all punjabis everywhere...rest comes later...email me at
to communicate on a more personal level. Punjabi women arte specially encouraged....for gender equity and gender development...LOL

rab rakha

Myself a punjabi born in Calcutta dreams for a unified Bengal & Panjab of pre Independance era (is it possible). Though I do not know my roots wish to visit Lahore where my parents resided before partition. I wish love & humanity to the people of this sub continent.

I am a Punjabi, born in Malaysia. I have been doing a lot of reading lately on Punjab and Sikh History, and the violent aftermath of 1984.

Can I hope for the truncated Punjab to one day go the way of Germany (united again after the fall of the Berlin Wall)? Can East(Indian) and West(Pakistan) Punjab be re-unified? There only one time in the history of the Punjab when there was peace and order, when the Khalsa ruled the Punjab!

May Wahaguru Bless all of you.

Raab Rakha

i am an indian punjabi.i had been to pakistan.i liked what i saw there.pakistani punjabi's welcome you,respect you and honour you.why should i not do the same. i felt homely in lahore nankana sahib.they are the same people as we are.culturally the people of pakistani punjab are closer to the people of indian punjab. i feel at home there.i would like to go back again.thanks

Hello;
MAIN TEEN MERE SUB DOOST INDIAN PUNJABIAN NAAL
DOOSTI DE CHAHIWAN HAN.SADI ZUBAN IK ,SADI MATTI IK
PHER ASI DUSHMAN BAN KEY KYON RAHEY.
WELL WISHWER..
ZEESHAN MALIK (SHAKAR GARH)(PAKISTAN)

Thi would be a very good forum to compliment the other one started by Malik about how Pakistani Punjabis view Indian Punjaibs.

I would like to know how do we view each group of Punjabis collectively not at individual level.

Get real people. Stop playing stupid politics and all. So many people have said stupid stuff its unbelievable. Do you guys think before you write or do you think at all is a better question. Many sikhs, muslims, and hindus have said some stupid !- at - #$. Its sad......what makes a true punjabi?? One who is punjabi first then his or her religon I mean get real we all came from one source....(for some god others its evolution). No one is better than anyone else based on religon or nationality but its based on what type of character they have.......sadly punjabi's are going down...look at all the crap y'all said to each other. RAB RAKHA SARAYAN DA
SAT SRI AKAL, KHUDA HAFIZ, NAMASTE,
:::::peace out and be out in peace::::::::::

Hi freinds,
Tuhade suggestions and thoughts padke really i am disappointed tuhanu wehliyan nu koyee kam nahi jo ek doosre layee jeher uglede rehnde ho. i am from india punajbi and now in Gulf country but let me tell u here we feel more close to pakistanis (Punajbis) then our so called indians jinah di basha bhi samjh nahi aondi and jede sab to jayada khatrnak sabit hunde ne. so stop acting like true sons of Bi..h and behave properly enee pyaree site da proper istemaal karo payaar waddan de layee na kee nafrat. eh jihde loki paki punajbai's against likhde han pehla apne andhar takan zara, ehne nu kee pata doti parsad kuch thodi jayee problem aa jaye ta dhoti chuk ke dod laga dende ne. i hate these type of peoples. Bloody rac-ls.

PS where is the time to hate when there is little time to love. I wish hum sab milke kuch aisa karen kee broder free ho jaye and koyee bhi aa jaa sake without visa. samjhe akal ke andho.

We I feel that Pakistanis are ••••••• ass holes and they can never be trusted.

When the major chunk qualifies as mother fuckers and sister fuckers, you can very well leave out whatever exceptions are left. May be they still have that purity of heart left which was inculcated into their ancestors because they were Indian at that time and not ••••••• Pakistanis.

I give a damn about this one ••••••• country and know that the fact is this country is a terrorist state with so many Bin Ladens that are a threat to the human race.

It is on the path of self destruction, but as a duty towards saving our country from this ••••••• country we should destroy them completely once and for all.

We Indians are One. We have love for our motherland and can die to save our mother whenever required.

India Jindabad.

Pakistan is mother ••••••• country It is a prostitue which is fucked by countries like US. It licks US's ass and cannot be called a Pak sthan at all. IT is not Pak. It is shit.

•••• all Pakis

Pakistan Mordabad

do u really wona know how west punjabis think of east punjabis.....
BIG •••• OFFFFF --- we don't even wona see the faces of these ••••••• punjabis....
I JUST WISH I WAS NOT A PUNJABI *** BUT SOME OTHER NATION OF PAKISTAN

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

I'm sorry but as a person who is from current day Pakistan, I am well aware of the fact, that Pakistan will not last. Pakistan has no use in the world's politics anymore. Communism is over and with it goes the BS state of Pakistan. Jinnah was nothing but a British agent. Pakistan was nothing but a British ploy to create problems for the muslims of India. Look at the poor muslims that are in India, they have no voice. Jinnah had to be a fool to say no to 35% of the government of India. Do you Pakistanis know how much that is, there wouldn't be the muslim minority problems that the Indian muslims are now facing. When ever Pakistan starts to fail as a state it just sends for more poor stupid muslims to die in Kashmir. Stop playing with their lives. Work for their rights, not Pakistani expansionism. Pakistan will not be happy until it controls India. Well wake up call that's not going to happen.

Look what Pakistani policies have done to the poor muslims in Afghanistan. First it divides and steals from the Afghans. Half of the true Afghans are in current day Pakistan. You don't even call them by their proper name, you call them Pathans. Are you aware that Pathan is a racist term that Pashtoons hate. Are you aware of what the Pakistani policies have done to the Afghans. Every problem that the Afghans have gone through in the last 50 years has been a DIRECT cause of Pakistani policies. First Daoud was weakened by Pakistani policy of militants. For what reason, b/c Afghans wanted the land and people which belonged to their nation not only by their own will, but also by legal status of the Durand Line treaty. As a direct cause the Russians came into Afghanistan. Who supported Hekmatyar? ... Pakistan. Who supported Rabbani? ... Pakistan. Who supported the Taliban ... Pakistan. Pakistan thinks it can play this game in Afghanistan, Kashmir, and India. Well it's time to stop!!!... Pakistan is the killer of muslims. I feel bad for the poor Pakistani people who will suffer the most in this sick game. God save the Punjabis, b/c I fear for them.

Punjabis on both sides the border are united by the Holy water of five rivers,
love of good Punjabi songs, open fields, and open honest joyous way of living.

It is easy to hate. It takes lot more guts to Love.

Better learn to Love today, there is no Haven waiting for a hateful heart.

Yes, fanatics on both sides have/are killing the innocent.

Are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?

Don't look to seat of government for help, it only cares for the seat.

O Punjabis everywhere!
Unite against senseless hate!
Unite against propaganda of corrupt governments!
Unite so your children learn Language of Love!
Unite for the love of Punjabi!

It is the United States that kick butt, not divided fanatics.

JATT SIKHS ARE LIKE EVERYOTHER RILGION

Pakistani terrorists have one goal to conquer remaining India and convert all to islam. So all Indians (Sikhs, Hindu, etc) must see that and stop fighting amongest themselves and save Kashmir. Remember Pakistan is very good at shit stirring in India since it has many religons causing civil wars. Bringing pakistans dream of taking over india closer. Remember Pakistan will not help the Sikhs create Khalistan, but want the rest of PUNJAB for themselves.
Lets save what is left of India.

Why can't we all just get along?

Hi Friends
Happy new year to Punjabi brothers all over the world.

Pakis can not be trusted.

You guy are stupid.

We are from the same nation. If you are Hindu, Sikh, or Musliman. Who cares? If you are going to Say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji hated Muslims, wrong! He hated injustice, not muslims. I think we all need to be more equal and think. If you live in a nation, where there are few South Asians, you can tell.

Be it Musliman, Sikh, hindu, issai, sarai hai merai bhai, bhai.

P.S Don't quote from Sikh Scriptures.

To Jatinder

Before your soft heart for Pakistan gets any bigger please check this link.

http://www.voi.org/books/mla/index.htm

HAIII I AM ABBAS AND I AM FRM MONTREAL CANADA ,
ONE OF MY BEST FRIEND IS SUKHDEEEP ,WE R LIKE BROTHERS AND I LOVE HIM LIKE MY REAL BROTHER
AND I DONT CARE EVEN ITS A PAKISTANI OR INDIAN ,BUT IF SOME ONE FUCKSS WITH MY BROTHER I WILLL BEATTT THE SHITTT OUTTT THAT GUY
I HAVE LOTS OF INDIAN PUNJABI FRIENDS AND I LOVE THEM LIKE MY OWN BROTHERS AND IF THEY HAVE A TOUGH TIME IT IS ALSO A TOUGH TIME FOR ME AND I TRY TO HELP THEM ANY WAY I COULD
I WANT TO WRITE THIS MESSSEGE TOO ALL THOSE LOSER RACIAL MOTHER FUCKERSS I DONT CARE EVEN ITS A PAKI OR A INDIAN ,EVEN ITS A MUSLIM OR A SIKH
BUT AS LONG U T KOOOL WITH EACH OTHER NO ONE WILLL •••• WITH U>
KHUDA HAFIZ
SASRIAKAAL

well this wasnt too helpfull in knowing what paki punjabis and indian punjabis think about eachother!

I was born and raised in indian punjab and now living in the US. I must say that the 15-16 years of my life that I spent in india I had only hate for all pakis. But I can't say it was my fault. It was the media.

After moving here I have met and become friends with lots of paki punjabis and its totally different than what I had thought. But for some reason I always have this thing in my mind that they are pakis and I always find it hard to trust them. Would love to visit pakistan one day and see how it is. Would love to see the place where my father was born and where my grandfather lived almost all of his life.

Jatinder

PS. I think all the people talking crap about eachother on this message board should find a better place!

Pakis can not be trusted.

Punjabi (Paki)

Shut up.....and watch your back ass, before the American bomb you out. I can assure you, not in your life span or your great grand children life, Kashmir will ever go to Pakistan.

Keep harping on Kashmir for another 100 years and destroy Pakistan economy, if there is a Pakistan left.

Stop barking like a dog now!!!

Go to sleep and have Kashmir in your dreams only, black & white not in colour as you stupid Pakis can not afford it.

Pakistan Mordabad.
Death to all Paki terrorists.

Raj kharega Khalsa in Lahore, the capital of Maharaja Ranjit Singh ji very soon.

Oye Jora Singh ! cool down ! Kashmir & Punjabiat r different things.Let kasmiris decide where they want to go.Remeber this is a Punjabi site.Sikh Muslims & Hindu Punjabis live like brothers in punjab. Malerkotla & gurdaspur have considerable muslim populations in punjab,& we live like brother punjabis.Royal family of Malerkotla(muslim by religion)have been a memeber of the AKali Party since long.When Nawaz Sharif visited his village near Jullunder,an Akand Path was organized by the villiage people.Kashmir and Punjabiat R completely differnt things.there R good and bad people in all religions.
Hi Pakistani , we also respect punjabis from ur side,infact many have muslim realtives & friends across the border. Beware of political & religious cum bags,who might post rubbish here.Truth is we r the same.

Pakistani

If you think you are getting Kashmir from India, you are living in a dream world and are delusional. Pakis can not and never be trusted any where in the world.

What the Paki goverment want Kashmir is revenge of 1971 break up of East Pakistan. in the 1980's Paki started trouble in India Punjab and now in Kashmir.

Look stupid Pakistani, 8000 of your country men died or are missing in Afghanistan, I feel it can go as high as 50000 Pakis dead in Afghanistan. What you get in return of all the dead jehadis, a BIG ZERO. the same situation will apply on Kashmir, a BIG ZERO.

India had tasted Paki's terrorism in Punjab, Kashmir and North East states. but wait till Pakistan taste India might on terrorism, it would break up Sindh and Baluchistan, NWFP will join Afghanistan. you never know history of 1971 will be repeated sooner than later.

Current India position is good and respected world world, India has extensive foreign exchange and Russia, USA, Israel, France and all countries in the world would provide arms, weapons and technology to India.

On the other hand, General Pervez Musharraf tried to get from USA fighter planes F-16, he was instantly refused. No country in the world would like to associate with a corrupt Pakistan goverment. Pakistan is financially, socially, morally and politically bankrupt.

Pakistan Mordabad.
Death to all Pakistani supporting terrorism.

Apna Punjab jisda surbat virga pani ! dharti punj dariyan di rani ,jithe sone gabruann ne hikan kadiyan .
Hey dudes west and east punjabis r the same people , many sirnames R common.
Y hate ur own people ? Punjab has the best cultural and traditional backgroud.

Punjab has produced great singers like Malkit Singh, Alam Lohar,Nusrat,Gurdas mann
etc... Folk songs like Challa ,Mirza will melt NE punjabi.
Saada Rangla Punjab suda vasda rave.
Rab Rakha

we pakistani punjabis always believe that the punjabis of india are really like our friends.if you meet any person who has visited pakistan he will prove it.all of the yaateries for Nankana sahib get very friendly atmosphere there.
And i dont think that we ever think that sikhs will help us for kashmir because they are also struggling themselves and also we think that we are able to fight in kashmir without any help.it proves by this fact that kashmiris are fighting for ten years without help of anybody in india so they can do it.if think that we pakistani want reward from you people so brother it is totaly false and misconception we just feel them like friends without any greed.

Hmmm,

It looks as though Pakistan ain't stupid. They will not help us sikhs unless they get something in return. And what they will ask for in return is help in winning Kashmir for Pakistan.

Iz dat worth it???

I think punjabis in both countries have respect for each other. I think many non punjabiz here trying to create problems between punjbaiz in Pakistan and Khalistan. Hindus are trying to create problems between Sikhs and Muslims, Since 1984 Fuckin Hindus have killed 250,000 Sikhs. •••• anybody who is supporting Hindus. In the end Pakistan will help us creating Khalistan not ••••••• Hindus.
•••• Hind

Jehadis got double crossed

200 terrorists contact security forces
Foreign mercenaries re-think over 'jehad'
as Pak ditches Taliban

From Dinesh Manhotra

JAMMU, Nov 6: Antagonized over inhuman activities of so-called Mujahideens, a large number of disenchanted foreign terrorists, who had infiltrated in to this side to wage Jehad, have been desperately trying to return to their native places.

Atrocities committed by the terrorists on the innocent people coinciding with increasing pressure of forces, forced not only local militants but foreign terrorists to rethink about on-going Jehad. Serious thinking started among foreign terrorist whether to continue Jehad or to return to their native places

For the last fortnight a good number of foreign terrorists have made attempt to exfiltrate as they are now very much aware of real face of so-called Jehad.

"Disenchanted foreign terrorists are pledging before the forces to allow them to cross over other side of the border so that they can return to their native places", informed defence sources.

Defence sources disclosed that a large number of highly educated youth, lured by the vicious campaign launched by the Mullahs and other fundamentalists elements, have joined Jehadi groups to get their Kashmiri brethren ‘rid’ from the yoke of Indian hegemony. "But they have realised ground realities as soon as they stepped into this side", said sources.

Defence sources narrated example of a engineer Pakistani youth, who had joined Jehad to ‘save’ Kashmiri Muslim from Indian atrocities. Belonging to a sound family of Lahore, Abdul Rashid (name changed), BE, (Civil) was influenced by the malicious campaign launched by some fundamentalist forces in Pakistan. Rashid along with some of his friends joined a Jehadi group and got training in camp located at Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK).

Rashid later crossed over to India through Kupwara to wage Jehad against Indian forces. "Within a month’s time Rashid realised that campaign launched in Pakistan was nothing but a false propaganda to befool the youth", defence sources said.

While pointing towards his interrogation report, defence sources said that Rashid visited various areas of Kashmir to get himself aware of the real situation. After spending more than one month in Kashmir, Rashid later crossed over to Jammu region where he interacted with large section of the people.

Rashid, who joined Jehad to protect the honour and dignity of the Kashmiri Muslims, was shell shocked to know that Muslims of not only Jammu and Kashmir but of entire India were better placed than even Muslims of Pakistan. Rashid, ultimately, decided to shun the path of violence and to return to his native place.

Abdul Rashid is not an isolated case, there are about 200 well educated terrorists, who had contacted the forces that they had mistakenly joined Jehad but now they want to live peaceful life.

Defence sources said that Pakistan’s decision to ditch Muslim Taliban to offer support to United States of America (USA) has also forced to the educated militants to rethink Jehad.

Taking a leaf from the interrogation report of some terrorists, who had joined Jehad to fight for Islam, defence sources said that after Pakistan’s support to USA terrorists have now realised that national interests were important than religion. "There is thinking among terrorists that if Pakistan, the so-called leader of Muslim nations, can back-stab cause of Islam for its own national interest why they should unnecessarily sacrifice their own lives", sources said. Defence sources said that disenchantment was high among local youth who have joined various Jehadi groups following instigation of Pakistan. Atrocities committed by the so-called Mujahideens on innocent citizens, Pakistan decision to ditch Taliban and increasing pressure of security forces, forced local youth to shun the path of violence and intensify efforts to restore peace and tranquillity in the State.

Pointing towards killings of 52 terrorists by the forces during last week, defence sources said that it has boosted moral of the security forces while it sent shock wave among terrorists who are hell bent to disrupt peace in the region.

Story of Young Sikhs Peacefull Protest

A younger interlocutor described his awakening to the power of Guru through the model of a fellow Sikh sufferer. I record his story in some detail here, as it instructively points to the role of state persecution in the nurturing of militancy as well as in itself prompting a religious awakening.

"When the attack on the Golden Temple occurred in 1984, I was just a student in school, only fifteen years old. But we got together at school, about five hundred of us, and started protesting.

"There was at that time a Sikh Students Federation, and one member of that Federation, Kuldip Singh Telham, got arrested. (He was later killed by the government.) We protested against that arrest. Police came to our protest and started shooting at everybody, and a few people got wounded. Later the Federation members who were in hiding came to our school and convened a meeting. We started a school branch of the Sikh Student Federation and we decided to hold a program called 'In Memory of the Martyrs of Khalistan.'

"It was actually very dangerous, but I wasn't afraid. I didn't know then how they tortured, how they killed people. But let me tell you the truth, I actually wanted to go to jail to see if it was really as bad as people said

"Anyway, I eventually got arrested along with other Federation members I was arrested many times in the next four years. Finally in 1988 they arrested me once again and said, 'We'll kill you if you don't stop your activities.' I said, 'I'm not doing anything wrong, not killing any body. I don't have anything to do with violence.' But they said, 'We will kill you anyway.'

"Then I went into hiding at my cousin's house. I knew that if they caught me they would torture me and kill me. My friend got arrested at his college, Khalsa College in Jallandhar, and they tortured and killed him. Another friend was in custody at an interrogation center and I knew he was being tortured. I wondered whether he would tell about me under interrogation.

"My whole family got arrested, my sister, sister's husband, my father my mother, and my brother. They arrested all of them because I was not at home. 'Where is he?' they asked my mom. 'We don't know,' she said 'He went to college and he didn't come back.' She was afraid that if they found me they would kill me. She said, 'You can do with us whatever you want, but we don't know where he is.' The officer told her, 'We will kill all of you because your son is a terrorist.' They searched the house for weapons, but we never kept anything like that. All they found were Federation receipts.

"Then they went to my mother's sister's house. They held the whole family at gunpoint. They prodded my brother with the gun and then he said, 'Yes, I know where he is.' He told my mother, 'They will kill us all. Just tell them where he is.'

"So they caught me, where I was sleeping with my cousins. My mother my sister, and my dad were released. But they kept me, my brother, my sister's husband, my brother-in-law, and my two cousins. They kept all us because we were young. They want to finish off the 14 to 35 age group But they took me to one side of the police station and said to the other 'He's a killer. We'll deal with him separately.'

"Then they took my clothes off and I was without anything. 'Where are your senior party members, where is your president?' they asked. At that time it was Gurjit Singh. There were two other members in hiding, Nimaljit Singh Nimma and Kanwaljit Singh Sultanwind, who were later killed in a fake encounter. The police were asking me about them. They also asked about a police officer who was killed in our area. 'Who did that.' You did that, didn't you?' they said. But I said, 'No, I didn't.'

"They bound my arms behind my back, handcuffed, and hung me upside down from the ceiling. It's called the 'airplane.' Then they were hitting me and hitting me. It was very hard for me. I was just crying and crying. They were saying, 'Just tell us, we will release you.' But I couldn't do that. If I didn't know about that how could I say anything?

"Then they put me down on the floor. They have a big heavy roller and they put it on my thighs. One police officer stood on one side and the other on the other side and they rolled it across my thighs over and over. It was very painful. I was afraid. I thought they would kill me. But I thought if I say other Federation members' names they would kill me anyway. If they wanted to kill me, they would. That was all there was to it.

"Then the senior superintendent of police came over and asked how come the police were doing so much violence to me. They said 'We arrested him, but he's not saying anything.' 'Bring him to the main interrogation center then,' the superintendent said.

"On the way over the police kept saying to me, 'We will kill you over here. We will say that somebody tried to help you escape, and that we had to shoot and kill you.' They were truing to make me afraid, hut I was no longer afraid. I thought, well, if they want to kill me there is nothing I can do. I knew I was not a criminal.

"As I was getting out of the van at the Criminal Investigation Agency center, they beat me up. Many of them were drunk. Then the superintendent of that center came out and when I saw who it was I thought I would surely be killed. That guy has killed so many people. We called him 'The Butcher.'

"When I got inside they caught me by my arms and legs and put me down on the floor. I was feeling really bad at that time. They were joking around. 'Just tell us. How do you want to be tortured?' They thought they were having fun.

"Then they caught me on my right leg and my left leg and spread them wide, wide like this. And they were hitting me at the same time. 'We killed your friends and they told us about you,' they were saying. Then they got electric shocks and gave me shocks on the private parts of my body. They shocked me and shocked me. They said, 'We will finish you. Now you can't be married, you can't produce any more terrorists.'

"A few of them seemed to be getting tired, so they said, 'Well, he doesn't want to say anything so let's just kill him.' But the inspector said, "No, we'll do it tomorrow. I still have something to ask him.' "There was another guy who had gotten killed at that interrogation center and he had had his flesh torn out with a long spear. They showed me that spear and I got really afraid. But then I thought again, 'There is nothing I can do. If they want to kill me they will.' So I forgot everything and everybody. I just got ready to die.

"Beating me and beating me, this continued on and on. I couldn't feel anything on most of my body anymore. But they tried to find out where I still felt pain and then they would hit me there.

"Then the president of our whole Federation was dragged out. He was at the same interrogation center! They started to beat him up and said, 'Here is your partner in this, we will beat him up too.' He was a doctor. "They were heating him up very badly, just like you beat paddy in the fields. They were saying things to him but I didn't listen. I was just preparing myself to die. Then they told me that he would be killed that night.

"He heard that, too, but as I watched him I saw that he wasn't saying anything to them. He was just saying 'Waheguru' again and again. 'Waheguru,' he would say, 'you take care of me. Waheguru, Waheguru.'

"When I saw this I thought, if he doesn't say anything how can I say anything? I got strength from him. He knew he was going to die and he just turned to Guru. I said, 'Waheguru, Waheguru,' and I got calm.

"They were taking him out and he turned and said, 'God will take care of you. There's a place in heaven for us because we are dying for truth. Don't be afraid.'

"By God's grace I got released. From then on I relied on the Guru."

Check out this site for info on Islam


http://www.golshan.com

What the hell is this crap???

Aren't people aware of the millions of hindus and sikhs that were tortured and brutally killed by inhumane muslims in the name of the Prophet Mohammed and in the name of Islam for Pakistan???

Never ever can u trust such vile pigs who have brutally tortured their own neighbours. It's going on right now as we speak, so i need not say anymore.

Resist the muslsim, for they have empty promises and hate all non-muslims.

Even in the Granth Sahib it says that when the destruction of the world, Pehla, musalmaanan da kuthum hogay.

The word is that on the way out after finishing the job in Afganistan America will find Paskistan also connected to terrorrism and then finish Pakistan as wells.

Sikh Soldier...be patient it's a matter of time and Peukistan will self destruct from within.Iranians dont like them,Afghan dont like them,the Chinks just use them and we Hindustanis hate them and now their baby called Taliban will want revenge for abandoning it.Poor poor peukistanis no where to run no where to hide.

It's really rather depressing to see all of this india/pakistan shit, because we're all of the same land.

Why is there so much hatred here? There's so much emotion. As sad as it is to see, it's also understandable in a way... I've never seen tempers flare as passionately as when there is a dispute within a family.

You pakis are such idiots. We give you your own country and what the hell do u do with it? U •••• it up. You don't even respect the people who allowed you to have ur own country. You've had ur chance. India will reclaim the land you polluted and restore it to its former glory.

Why 'Gujju's and Hindus' hate Sikhs?
If you were in USA in 1984 during Delhi riots, you could hear and listen Gujju's spreading bad stuff against Sikhs. South Indians usually told their American friends that Brahmins are high class Indians- all others are low caste- especially sikhs. There had been lots of misinformation and damage by Hindu India to the American Sikhs? what are your thoughts and experiences in USA?
Are there any compassionate people or experts who have ideas to offset such attacks. All positive comments are highly appericiated.

Liberate the Pak punjab and acede it to India.
Slaughter the dirty Pakiz !
Jai Hind!!

hello,punjabis,
we r punjabis firstand hindu,sikh,muslims afterwards,break the borders and unit again.
rupinder

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hallo here speak jatt sikh
i want to teach alesson to a person who write allias indra
is kutte bhainchod sulle nu sharam nahi aundi apne jawaian sikha nal ih gal kardia,ohe kaminia sullia tu ki sikh woman nal karaenga main ta kalle ne hi apni jindgi wich 110 to wadh teria sullia bhaina wich apna bi suttia hai ta ki tuhanu wi pata lagge sikh is a great power and u are only sisterfucker sulla kutta
this is only for u
all the other muslim are my brothers dont mind this is only for this bitch son who wrote for sikhs bad words

PAK POWER,
You are only right about imran khan. But abdus salam and noor jehaan were punjabis. Also nusrat fateh ali for sure. And in junoon ali azmat and salman ahmed are also both punjabis lahoriye. I cheked that information. But junaid jamshed of vitalsigns is pathan.

ali what you are forgetting is that many people you mentioned are not of pre islamic punjab origin.
imran khan is pathan
junoon bands singers atleast one of them is urdu speaking punjabi
Noor jahan is of persian descent
nusrat fateh ali khan is of turkish descent
so and so forth
dr. abdus salam himself is of urdu speaking punjabi descent.
And secondly, seraikis dont call themselves punjabis and there are many other minorities who dont consider themselves punjabis.

We should not badmouth Pakistanis or Indians because when you seriously think about it the only reason most of Pakistanis are Pakistanis because they happened to be living in the area at the time of partition and the only reason Indians are Indians because they happened to be living in the area at the time of partition.

Singh Power,

Ease up on Pakistan man...after all...it is Pakistan's second largest province and the homeland of the Sikhs...

SOME pakis act like they are the Baap of Punjab, but all they do is bark like dogs, don't let them get to you or anyone else.

To SOME of those pakis who act like they own punjab:

Try to save your own freaking country first!!! Just look at how Pakistan is falling apart: Balochistan and Sindh are both demanding independence from Pakistan!!! It's barely been 55 years and the country is in turmoil. Personally I would like to see Pakistan suffer, but if it does, Punjab will also suffer!

Just try to take it easy guys, we are all being manipulated by governments!!!

Ali,your choice of famous pakistani born punjabis was a bit unfortunate:Nusrat fateh ali khan was born in jullunder(indian punjab)and General Zia was born in my home village,in district jullunder.
Oh and imran khan is not a punjabi,he's a pathan.

YES PAKISTANI PUNJAB HAS ALSO PRODUCED A MAN LIKE JAVED IQBAL MUGHAL PAKISTAN'S MOST FAMOUS CHILD ABUSING SERIAL KILLER (100 KILLED, MANY MORE ABUSED)

ANYONE WATCH CHANNEL 4'S PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE SHOWING THIS ILL MANS DEEDS IN LAHORE? HE USED TO PICK UP RUNAWAY KIDS FROM A HOLY MUSLIM SHRINE IN LAHORE CALLED DATA DARBAR

IM SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE THIS IN INDIA AND ALL OVER THE WORLD AND ITS A REAL SHAME THAT THEY AUTHORITIES DONT REALLY CARE

LITTLE SIGNIFICANCE? POLITICALLY YOU MAY BE RIGHT BUT DONT FORGET INDIAN PUNJAB FEEDS THE REST OF INDIA AND EVEN PAKISTAN WANTS TO BUY INDIAS FOOD SURPLUS WHICH IS MADE IN INDIAN PUNJAB

I tell u something ...if u start looking at differences between the two u will never be able to live like civilised nations....a better way is to look at the common features which we all share.

PUNJAB was the place from where English Govt prefered to hire ppl for her Armed Forces. Punjabis are tough ppl they make 80% of the Pakistan Army but i duno bout the indian side!

Another interesting feature is that Punjab in india has a little significance unlike the Punjab in Pakistan. When we talk bout a typical Pakistani we are talking bout Punjabis.... Punjab makes 55% of the total paki population.

Paki Punjab has produced ppl like, Dr. Abdul Salam (Nobel Prize Winner), Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (The Music Legend), Imran Khan (Famous Cricketer), Junoon (Famous Band), Mehdi Hasan, Noor Jehan, Gen. Zia, u name it and we have got him here!!!

Punjab is the land of rich culture, rich brains, and rich ppl who are rich by heart.


Peace!
ali

Telling u about how pakis view indian punjabis....well frankly speaking we duno much about indian punjab except Sukhbir, and Sardar Jees!!!

So when we say indian Punjab we mean Sikhs living in india....and we view sikhs as we view are KHAN SAHABs here!! or as ppl view Irish!!!